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Property talk:P1549

This property is being considered for deletion. Please share your thoughts on the matter at this property's entry on the Properties for deletion page.


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demonym
demonym for people or things associated with a given place. In English, this should start with a capital letter. Singular masculine adjective form is preferred. Add a qualifier if another form is added.
DescriptionDemonym. For English, the singular masculine adjective form is preferred. In English, this should start with a Capital letter. Add a qualifier if another form is added.
Representsdemonym (Q217438)
Data typeMonolingual text
Template parameter
Domain
According to this template: places
According to statements in the property:
geographic region (Q82794), toponym (Q7884789), continent (Q5107), fictional location (Q3895768), tribe (Q133311) and planet (Q634)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed values
According to this template: demonym
According to statements in the property:
[^,/()]+
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
ExampleMexico (Q96)Mexicain and Mexikaner
Cuba (Q241)Cuban
Calgary (Q36312)Calgarian
Karnataka (Q1185)ಕನ್ನಡಿಗ
Netherlands (Q55)nederlandano
Wallis and Futuna (Q35555)Wallisian, Futunan
Uzbekistan (Q265)Uzbek
Uruguay (Q77)Uruguayan
Republic of Bashkortostan (Q5710)bashqort
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P1549 (Q23909007)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses3,201
  Format “[^,/()]+: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1549#Format, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Statement appears to contain multiple values
If there are multiple values (e.g. male and female forms), they should be entered as separate statements. (Help)
Violations query: select * { ?item wdt:P1549 ?text filter (regex(str(?text), "[,/()]")) }
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1549#Statement appears to contain multiple values
 
This property is being used by:

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)


monolingual in stead?Edit

Is monoligual a misspelling?--Even Thorbergsen (talk) 06:15, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

how to add qualifier masculine/feminineEdit

How do I add a qualifier (e.g at item Japan) to indicate it is a masculine or feminine form? (I can not find the 'masculine' item to be applied) 139.63.61.23 09:28, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I will use masculine (Q499327) and feminine (Q1775415) for now. 139.63.61.23 09:33, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

InsaneEdit

Are you sure you want to have >6000 (number of languages) values? Or at least ~250 (number of Wikipedias)? There's something intrinsically wrong in this property... --Infovarius (talk) 04:32, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

And we can have some synonims in one language too (leads to 6 values for Russian, sometimes). Infovarius (talk) 05:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
The focus is to use this in items for localities rather than countries. For a given language, adding one value should be sufficient. This limits to just a few values per item. --- Jura 07:54, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Let's see when the next "Too big Germany item-issue" comes. --Infovarius (talk) 07:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

for people or things associatedEdit

Can anybody see if this property have been used for Swedish (sv) yet? I cannot figure out how I should be able to add anything in Swedish based on the description. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 10:29, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

User FocalPoint pov pushingEdit

Please be informed that user:focalPoint is trying to creat extended pov pushing by changing demonym to ethnonym zhich is false translation --Kalogeropoulos (talk) 20:26, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Rename Russian translationEdit

@Александр Сигачёв, Infovarius, Vlsergey, Putnik: I'm going to redefine this property into "toponymic adjective" (топонимическое прилагательное). The change will be applied only for Russian label and description. There are two reasons for this:

  1. This property is used in other wikis/reasonator/autodesc for generating descriptions like "Douglas Adams was a British writer...". If we translate demonym as "этнохороним", we can't use it anywhere, except for Infoboxes (but now it is not used anywhere).
  2. In Russian demonym nouns could be easily mixed with ethnonyms (e. g. "немецкий композитор и композитор-немец, у кого из них чище кровь?").

There are 58 changes to be done, I'm going to handle them by myself. --Lockal (talk) 10:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

  • @Lockal: Первая причина понятна, но решение в корне неверное: если менять, то менять нужно именно для всех языков, а скорее даже вводить новое свойство. Потому что ситуация аналогична, как минимум, для большинства славянских языков, возможно и не только, но при этом почти все ориентируются на английское название и описание. То, что сейчас свойство используется неверно, — это проблема, но, опять же, глобальная. Вторую причину вообще не понял — да, этнонимы и этнохороними в русском зачастую звучат одинаково, только как это влияет на название свойства? —putnik 16:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
    @Putnik: Я думал над новым свойством, даже начал писать заявку, но потом понял, что никто из нерусскоязычных не поймёт различия. Для них свойство для топонимического прилагательного уже есть — это именно это свойство (P1549). Я пробежался по текущему использованию и понял, что везде используется прилагательные-существительные (частичная субстантивация). Кроме того, в английском описании уже написано: «Singular masculine adjective form is preferred. Add a qualifier if another form is added».
    По второй причине: этнохоронимы-существительные нельзя использовать в статьях из-за этнонимического окраса (см. пример с композитором-немцем).
    И всё-таки я придумал ещё один вариант:
    < France (Q142)     > demonym (P1549)   < французский >
    use (P366)   < adjective (Q34698)     >
    , а этнохоронимы-существительные оставить как есть. Уже лучше? --Lockal (talk) 19:09, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
1) То, что нерусскоязычные не поймут - их проблема. Делаем, как удобнее.
2) Неплохо бы определиться, а где мы вообще будем использовать это свойство?
3) Этнохоронимы и этнонимы всё равно будут путаться - неважно, в виде прилагательного или существительного взяты. Кстати, для Германии нужно не "немецкий", а "германский". Возможно, для существительного придётся использовать "германец".
4) С квалификатором мне нравится - хоть какое-то продвижение и возможность различия. --Infovarius (talk) 05:16, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
2) Текущий сценарий использования — автогенерация описания ботами/веб-сервисами совместно с новым свойством female form of label (P2521). Ну и ещё одна правка к ru:Отто, Пауль с ориентиром на будущее.
3) Слово "германец" не используется в русском языке. Попытка внедрить такую форму на викиданных так же провальна, как и попытка переименовать категорию немецких писателей в германских писателей. --Lockal (talk) 08:42, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

PluralEdit

Hello everyone,

How can we specify that a statement is plural? Actually, it's not clear.

There are to properties use in qualifier:

applies to part (P518) and sex or gender (P21) [1]

There are two types of element use (in French and German):

sex of humans (Q4369513) grammatical gender (Q162378)
male (Q6581097) masculine (Q499327)
female (Q6581072) feminine (Q1775415)

I think that use sex of humans (Q4369513) is wrong, because we talk about grammar, so if you agree, we should change this this with a bot. Same for sex or gender (P21).

For plural, can we use female (Q6581072) + plural (Q146786) or should we create a new item "masculine plural"?

Tubezlob (🙋) 13:36, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

For the first part, I too think that applies to part (P518) = masculine (Q499327) is better than sex or gender (P21) = sex of humans (Q4369513).
For the second part, not sure at all I feel like it seems that female (Q6581072) + plural (Q146786) is enough.
For notification, the biggest user of this property : @Robin van der Vliet, Máté, Turbolent2, Dinsdagskind, Jon Harald Søby, AB-me:
PS: very strangely there is no constraint on this property! There should be at least a {{Constraint:Type}} = geographic location (Q2221906) and probably more constraints.
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd use a single item as value that describes the form that is being added. This makes it easier to select just these.
    --- Jura 15:57, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
    • Jura1 could you give an example? Both case seems to have pros and cons : in both case, we have a lot of items to create but with a single item value, there will be a lot more items to create. For the records, right now, we only have 5 grammatical gender (Q162378) and 9 grammatical number (Q104083). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 10:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
      • Initially I asked for this to be created to import fields like "gentilé" from frwiki. These are generally m.pl. and sometimes include f.pl. Unfortunately it took forever for this to be created and then I noticed that the tools then didn't allow to import them easily .. anyways: in the meantime, I think it can be done and is still worth doing! You are up to it?
        --- Jura 10:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Yes I'm « up to it » but probably not from frwiki (datas are too bad and inconsistent there, fr:wikt:Catégorie:Gentilés en français is probably better, to be checked though) and above all, that's not really the question here. It's impossible to import something if the structure is so unclear and the inconsistencies in the current structures should be fixed first. Can we make the structure clear? and can you give example? My point of view (which is apparently the most common use right now) :
(maybe pejorative (Q545779) instead or in addition to common name (Q502895))
(not sure if and how to precise that masculine (Q499327) and feminine (Q1775415) are the same, putting them both or maybe with epicenity (Q3083701)?)
By the way, these kind of thing will probably be much more simple the L items (but in the meantime we can still improve the structure).
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 12:45, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
"Parisiens" would be m.pl. This if you need a sample for Q90, but I think the property is more useful for smallish places where it's actually hard to find the correct term. If plan to build this, feel free to proceed with whatever structured approach you prefer. As we don't know when and how L-items will come, the property would allow to build this now.
--- Jura 15:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
@VIGNERON, Jura1:
I have a question with the use of the property applies to part (P518). Example:
subject >  Wikidata property  < X >
applies to part (P518)   < A >
applies to part (P518)   < B >
Is it
1) applies to part (P518) for A and for B (no link between A and B)
or is it
2) applies to part (P518) for A and B (A and B are linked)?
I used so far this property with the first idea. In my opinion, the examples of VIGNERON are wrong. So I think we should create items for "masculine singluare", etc.
What do you think?
Tubezlob (🙋) 16:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
Jura1 uh ?!? this is a wiki and an ongoing discussion, there is absolutely no way that I import data right now (that would be borderline vandalism), especially when I don't have any preferences while others might and that I still have unanswered questions (this is why there is this discussion in the first place, it's the mere point of discussing).
Tubezlob oh… good question… no idea, what difference do you make between 1 and 2 ? For me they seems equivalent (like factorisation equivalent, A×(B+C) = A×B+A×C ) and I see you claim it's more something along « A and B for X » (X being the main value which is qualified and the link between all the qualifiers). But I think I see you're point, one single value would be less ambiguous.
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 17:35, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
@VIGNERON: In think that is that in mathematics (if you prefer): 1) A ∪ B 2) A ∩ B
Tubezlob (🙋) 18:16, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
@Tubezlob: ok, I see (a better wording would have been « 1) for all [A] and all [B] 2) for all [A and B] ») but I'm not sure this logic works here. ∪ and ∩ are for ensembles, here A and B are just one item. Not sure though as there is the case of demonym who are the same for multiple genders (like Parisian@en in both masculine and feminine or Rennais@fr is both for singular and plural). I think we need someone more verse in logic to give a definitive answer. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 20:34, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
@VIGNERON: In my mind, we can item as ensemble, because there could be have subclasses, etc. We should use something that can be use everywhere in Wikidata. We can't say: we use applies to part (P518) for demonyms in Wididata with this rule.
If we read what is written in our example, it's: "applies to part A and applies to part B", not "applies to part A and B". So with our topic: "applies to masculine and applies to plural", not "applies to masculine plural".
I ping other projects to have more opinion:
ping

Popcorndude Nikki SynConlanger Infovarius Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) Daniel Mietchen (talk) Lore.mazza81   Notified participants of WikiProject Linguistics and geographical wikiprojects: --Micru (talk) 21:46, 24 August 2014 (UTC) Tobias1984 (talk) TomT0m (talk) Genewiki123 (talk) Emw (talk) 03:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC) —Ruud 16:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC) Emitraka (talk) 14:32, 14 October 2015 (UTC) Bovlb (talk) 19:10, 21 October 2015 (UTC) Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 22:21, 23 October 2015 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:51, 5 November 2015 (UTC) --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 20:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC) --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC) --Lechatpito (talk) --Andrawaag (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC) --ChristianKl (talk) 16:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC) --Cmungall Cmungall (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2016 (UTC) Cord Wiljes (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC) DavRosen (talk) 23:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC) Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC) Pintoch (talk) 22:42, 5 March 2017 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 14:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC) YULdigitalpreservation (talk) 14:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC) PKM (talk) 00:24, 17 June 2017 (UTC) Fractaler (talk) 14:42, 17 June 2017 (UTC) Andreasmperu Diana de la Iglesia Jsamwrites (talk) Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 12:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC) Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 17:02, 4 September 2017 (UTC) Ptolusque (.-- .. -.- ..) 01:47, 14 September 2017 (UTC) Gamaliel (talk) --Horcrux92 (talk) 11:19, 12 November 2017 (UTC) MartinPoulter (talk) Bamyers99 (talk) 16:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC) Malore (talk) Wurstbruch (talk) 22:59, 4 April 2018 (UTC) Dcflyer (talk) 07:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 11:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC) Ninokeys (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC) Buccalon (talk) 14:08, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Jneubert (talk) 06:02, 21 October 2018 (UTC) Yair rand (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2018 (UTC) Tris T7 (talk) ElanHR (talk) 22:05, 26 December 2018 (UTC) linuxo Gq86 Gabrielaltay Liamjamesperritt (talk) 08:44, 21 June 2019 (UTC) ZI Jony Ivanhercaz (Talk) 11:07, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

  Notified participants of WikiProject Ontology GeoO Tobias1984 Emptyfear Kareyac Xelgen ԱշոտՏՆՂ Beko

  Notified participants of WikiProject Armenia The lles Balears WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. The Catalunya WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. Tobias1984 Vojtěch Dostál YjM Wesalius Jklamo Walter Klosse Sintakso Matěj Suchánek JAn Dudík Skim Frettie Jura1913 Mormegil

  Notified participants of WikiProject Czech Republic The Danmark WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. VIGNERON
Mathieudu68
Ayack
Aga
Ash Crow
Tubezlob
PAC2
Thierry Caro
Pymouss
Pintoch
Alphos
Nomen ad hoc
GAllegre
Jean-Frédéric
Manu1400
Thibdx
Marianne Casamance
Le Passant
Natou844
  Notified participants of WikiProject France ChristianKl Bigbossfarin Galaktos Labant   Notified participants of WikiProject Germany Gbeckmann

  Notified participants of WikiProject Municipalities of Germany Geraki Drspiros Sp!ros

  Notified participants of WikiProject Greece The Municipalities of Hungary WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. The Iranian Persian WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. Edgars2007 Papuass

  Notified participants of WikiProject Latvia The País Valencià WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. Powerek38 Wostr Wiklol Witia Holek Pit rock Yarl

  Notified participants of WikiProject Poland Strakhov Tiberioclaudio99 Discasto Enladrillado Ivanhercaz Millars Rodelar Abián Rubpe19

  Notified participants of WikiProject Spain The Suisse WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name. The Infoboxes/places WikiProject does not exist. Please correct the name.


and I have done an ad for this in the project chat.
Tubezlob (🙋) 11:13, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Tubezlob (🙋) 11:18, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Change qualifier to "as" ?Edit

Shall we update the suggested qualifier to Property:P794 (as). It seems that the initial choice confuses people more than it helps.
--- Jura 07:07, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

@Jura1: Interesting idea; indeed, the current situation is very messy and quite fuzzy. But isn't P794 (P794) too generic ? and which and what « suggested qualifier » and « initial choice » are you talking about? I don't see any constraint or suggestion and I think this is the main root of the problem.
Analysis: right now, 12 qualifiers are in use: applies to part (P518), sex or gender (P21), of (P642), stated in (P248), statement is subject of (P805), demonym (P1549), instance of (P31), grammatical option indicates (P2591), P794 (P794), P2439 (P2439), name in kana (P1814), use (P366), all for more or less for the same thing... P794 (P794) is used on Israel (Q801) but with the value noun (Q1084) so it's a different usage.
We definitely should put a constraint to accept only certain qualifiers (with {{Constraint:Qualifiers}}) but which one? On the other way round, I think we could all agree that some qualifiers are wrong (at least demonym (P1549) !! and probably sex or gender (P21) and P2439 (P2439) too, maybe use (P366) and name in kana (P1814)), if there is no objection I would like to start removing them.
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 10:28, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Note that there's current discussion about P794, with a proposal to rename it "subject has role", if Wikidata:Property proposal/object has role is approved. I am not sure if that would make it more or less suited here. Jheald (talk) 13:29, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, object has role would work even better than Property:P794 "as" (if it's created). Both are an improvement over the current applies to part (P518).
--- Jura 18:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

First constraint about the typeEdit

Hi,

As a starter, I've added a first obvious constraint {{Constraint:Type|class=Q82794|relation=instance}}. I though it would be wide and general enough but there was 65 items (now 61) which violate this constraint. I can identify four different violations :

Any ideas, remarks, thoughts ? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 11:15, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

@VIGNERON: For ethnic group (Q41710), I think that is appropriate. In the French Wiktionary, ethnonyme (ethnonym) is synonym of gentilé (demonym) and I add this alias in French to the property a few days ago. Tubezlob (🙋) 11:55, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
That would just repeat the label ..
--- Jura 18:30, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Not necessary, for Italians (Q50001), it would be in French "Italien" for P1549 instead of "Italiens" in the label, and we can add feminine singular, plural, etc. Tubezlob (🙋) 18:57, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
🙋
--- Jura 19:10, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I've add classes. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 15:53, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
And Jura1 removed people (Q2472587) (whom ethnic group (Q41710) is a subclass), and I kind of agree, it would be a duplication of the label and most importantly of the date stored in the related item about the place). Tubezlob do you agree too? could we resolve the consequent violation? (and then we could move on to some others constraints and then to a mass import). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 09:35, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
@VIGNERON: So how can we store ethnonyms if it's not with this property? Tubezlob (🙋) 10:57, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
@VIGNERON: true, good question... Jura1 do you have an idea? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 11:03, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
The sample you gave for Q50001 doesn't meet the description for this property. Maybe name (P2561)?
If one believes in adding it to random string properties, I don't see why one would pick this one.
You are obviously free to propose the creation of a new one.
--- Jura 12:50, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
Return to "P1549" page.