Property talk:P1810

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subject named as
name by which a subject is recorded in a database, mentioned as a contributor of a work, or is referred to in a particular context

Represents	name (Q82799)
Data type	String
Domain	film (Q11424), short film (Q24862), television film (Q506240) and other (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Example	Broncho Billy Anderson (Q946745) → Gilbert M. 'Broncho Billy' Anderson Tim Berners-Lee (Q80) → Timothy John BERNERS-LEE Mort Fertel (Q109483424) → Mort Fertel - Marriage Fitness Eutaw Street (Q5414390) → Eutaw Place
Tracking: usage	Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1810 (Q98131535)
See also	object named as (P1932), alternative name (P4970), name of the character role (P4633), pseudonym (P742), nickname (P1449), website username or ID (P554), applies to name of subject (P5168), applies to name of object (P8338), object stated in reference as (P5997), statement is subject of (P805)
Lists	Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Database reports/Constraint violations/P1810 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 8,074,065 Main statement 335 <0.1% of uses Qualifier 4,912,241 60.8% of uses Reference 3,161,489 39.2% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Scope is as reference (Q54828450), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1810#Scope, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200), Wikibase property (Q29934218), Wikibase lexeme (Q51885771), Wikibase form (Q54285143), Wikibase sense (Q54285715), Wikibase MediaInfo (Q59712033): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1810#Entity types

This property is being used by: es:Plantilla:Ficha de virus informático ca:Plantilla:Infotaula eina ca:Plantilla:Infotaula d'organització Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Discussion

Usable on database identifiers ?

It's clear that this property is already being used more widely than just for film and TV credits -- eg WikiProject books recommends using this with author (P50), where the value of P50 would be the item for the author, with P1810 used to record the pseudonym.

I would like to use it with external identifiers (eg for painters), to record the headline form of the name used in the database -- each database often has its own preferred form of an artist's name, particularly if all they have their own conventions for how they like to distinguish between different artists with similar names.

As an example, see eg the page for Jan Vermeer van Haarlem the Elder (Q3159680):

• "Jan Vermeer van Haarlem (I)" for the Dutch RKD (and also at Wiki Commons);
• "Vermeer van Haarlem, Jan, II" for the American Getty museum's ULAN service (who count his father as Jan I);
• "Meer, Johann van der" for the German GND

-- it's quite useful to be able to see the different preferences, which could otherwise be quite confusing.

Is there any objection to using this qualifier in this way? (It seems that the label and description texts might have to be changed in some languages, if they are to match the current English "named as", rather than the original "credited as").

Thanks, Jheald (talk) 19:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

@Jheald: I agree its excellent to explain how a person is named in the sources. Right now if you have gadget activated a gadget that checks Help:Property_constraints_portal and then we need to change the constraints... - Salgo60 (talk) 19:12, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Salgo60: Right now the only live constraint seems to be that P1810 can only be used as a qualifier, which is entirely appropriate. Looking at the properties that it's most used on, using the query at the top-right of the information box above, most now are not related to the film industry: tinyurl.com/yd32ln72. The information above could be updated, though. Jheald (talk) 19:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jheald: See video how I get problem with Q2938979#P119 and Q2938979/P119/ref/P1810 - Salgo60 (talk) 20:17, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Salgo60: Thanks for the video, it's very helpful to see exactly the case you're trying to deal with.

Normally subject named as (P1810) would be used as a qualifier for the main statement, not to give extra information about the reference. So if on the gravestone your person was named "X Y Z", then one could use P1810 on the place of burial (P119) statement in the main section for qualifiers, not as part of the section for references.

But I think your case may indeed be different from that, if you want to record how somebody was named e.g. in a printed index to the graves -- which might or might not be the same as the name carved on the stone.

If that is indeed the reason you are wanting to put the subject named as (P1810) information in the references section, rather than in the section directly above it for qualifiers on the main statement, then I don't know what is the best way forward. It might be worth asking at Project Chat, where there are more people who are more experienced than me as to what information is possible in the references section, and how to encode it. Jheald (talk) 23:50, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

@Jheald: One problem I try to address is that the semantic web is a "loosely" coupled system and I cant trust the system with the grave information that they have a persistent identifier. I have spoken to the programmer and he say it is almost ever.... but when working with the system I see its not. When storing

• name in the database subject named as (P1810)
• date buried place of burial (P119) / start time (P580) = Startdate
• grave plot place of burial (P119) / burial plot reference (P965)

I feel when they change the database it's easier for us to have a script that repair Wikidata's broken link as the name in the register and the meta data will not change also the name in the old registers are a good source for how they spelled the name. Today is 1600 graves mapped to Wikidata so you need to have a strategy see graves.wiki - Salgo60 (talk) 00:09, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

@Salgo60: Although there's a constraint to say that P1810 can only be used as a qualifier, the Wikidata property example (P1855) here is Broncho Billy Anderson (Q946745), where that's not how it's used. Should we fix the usage on Broncho Billy Anderson (Q946745), or is there a better example that should be used? (Or indeed both?) --Oravrattas (talk) 08:34, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

My vote is that we change 'Qualifier: this property can only be used as a qualifier. so it also can be used for references - Salgo60 (talk) 07:49, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

usage for LfDS object ID (P1708)

The new Items for LfDS object ID (P1708) have often long descriptions an Names. So it makes sence to shorten and precise them. Makes it sence to use subject named as (P1810) for these long descriptions? They have are important because of the official additional information (for search and structurework). Regards, Conny (talk) 06:41, 1 May 2018 (UTC).

Difference with object named as (P1932)

As stated here, I want to underline here the difference with property object named as (P1932): while the latter refers to the object of the statement, subject named as (P1810) refers to the item's subject (i.e. to be used as qualifier for indicating how the subject is named in the mentioned work). --Horcrux (talk) 15:38, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

maximum length and allowed characters

Hi! There are some issues to report about inserting the values from VIAF search for Nikolaus Lenau Lyzeum at Nikolaus-Lenau-Lyzeum (Nikolaus Lenau High School (Q1991332)) . to be continued
no bias — קיין אומוויסנדיקע פּרעפֿערענצן — keyn umvisndike preferentsn ^{talk contribs} 09:52, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Slightly more general application

I have adjusted the description slightly since I feel like this can be broadly used for a number of purposes. I have been using 'named as' to describe instance where a street name has a different name within certain neighborhoods or areas, for example --Middle river exports (talk) 22:56, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Etiqueta en español

He añadido los correspondientes alias femeninos. ¿Se puede usar nombrado/a como para indicar la alternacia de género? --Fantastoria (talk) 08:44, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

change to English label

I do not agree with the change of this property name to "subject named as". This property covers more than what are traditionally thought of as subjects. It is commonly also used for the authorized form of names in name authority files, many of which are never used as a subject. I think the previous name "named as" better covered both subject headings and name headings. Although, I would also not be opposed to changing it to something like "authorized heading", "authorized form", "established form", or something along those lines. UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 04:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I also do not agree with the label change. I reverted Pigsonthewing's edit and have changed the English label "subject named as" back to "named as". I think that "subject" may be confusing because it can be understood as the "subject of the statement" (as "subject" in P2868 (subject has role)). In this sense, this property (P1810) is often used as referring to "object named as". --Neo-Jay (talk) 14:00, 1 June 2022 (UTC) @UWashPrincipalCataloger: Probably "subject" in this property (P1810)'s English label refers to the "subject of the statement" (as "subject" in P2868 (subject has role)), not the "subject" you described. I changed the English label "subject named as" back to "named as" because I thought that this property (P1810) may refer to "object named as". But then I found P1932, whose English label was changed from "stated as" to "object stated as" at 13:24, 31 May 2022. I think that P1932 may be the correct property for "object named as" and I have reverted my edit on P1810. --Neo-Jay (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Triple (or "semantic triple", or "triplet") is the atomic data entity in the RDF data model, which codifies statements in the form of subject–predicate–object expressions.
The English language description of this property includes (my emphasis) "name by which a subject is recorded". The property proposal was for "the name of the target item" - in other words, the subject, not the object. Where we use a name authority file on a Wikidata item, it identifies the subject of that item. All of the examples for this property show it referring to the subject, not the object. For the object of a statement, object named as (P1932) is available. We have various other properties which refer to "subject" in this manner. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:25, 1 June 2022 (UTC)