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Property talk:P1946

This property is being considered for deletion. Please share your thoughts on the matter at this property's entry on the Properties for deletion page.


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Documentation

National Library of Ireland authority ID
National Library of Ireland (N6I) authority identifier
RepresentsNational Library of Ireland (Q1672830)
Associated itemNational Library of Ireland (Q1672830)
Has qualityVIAF component (Q26921380)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domain
According to this template: instance of (P31): human (Q5) (possibly corporate authors, etc., similar to other authorities)
According to statements in the property:
human (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295), book (Q571), literary work (Q7725634), newspaper (Q11032) and work (Q386724)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
ExampleCharles Baudelaire (Q501) → vtls000095925
Source
According to this template: VIAF record
According to statements in the property:
http://catalogue.nli.ie
http://viaf.org
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Related to country  Ireland (Q27) (See 20 others)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses16,858
Search for values
  Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1946#Unique value, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)
  Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1946#Single value, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as references (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1946#scope, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)


The National Library of Ireland is not participating in VIAFEdit

I know Wikidata loves data and don't care much about reliable sources. Following the property documentation, that is hopefully false, this property has VIAF as it's the only "source". My grandma heard in the radio that a professor said that VIAF can't be an original source - and I hope nobody dares to distrust my grandmother. VIAF is not a reliable source, since it's only harvesting ids. (Take a look at VIAF:32077360, a chess coach that was reborn as a jazz guitarist.) Furthermore the National Library of Ireland is not even participating in VIAF. VIAF has only added some ids for testing. --Kolja21 (talk) 17:51, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  • @Kolja21: There are 5 test contributors for VIAF. The common thing for all of those: IDs can be found at VIAF. -- Vlsergey (talk) 19:40, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes: some ids. Take for example the Russian State Library (Q1048694). You will find some old ids at VIAF, imported in the year 2012. Even the GND, which fully participates in VIAF is not complet, see Property talk:P227#Usage note. Importing data from VIAF is ok, if we add the qualifiers "imported from" and "access date", indicating that we haven't looked up the original source. --Kolja21 (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Something wrong hereEdit

For these Irish writers I added some of the several values we now state for National Library of Ireland authority.

Lynch for instance: The bundle VIAF=46926027 https://viaf.org/viaf/46926027/#Lynch,_Patricia,_1898-1972 for Patricia Lynch evidently shows N6I-vtls000304875 on mouseover and https://viaf.org/processed/N6I%7Cvtls000304875 as URL of the target page. So we --I and other editors before me-- have entered vtls000304875 as the value in this field. But Q7145702 thus targets http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304875 --which seems to be the NLI catalog record for a work. --P64 (talk) 22:41, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Everything is wrong here: The authority file itself is not web-accessible (otherwise VIAF would normally provide a link) Even if we query the NLI catalogue the records (also in MARC display or by investigating hyperlinks) give no hints with respect to authority numbers. Mix'n'match gives a slightly different URL (by querying the catalogue for "related" Ids) but the data set presented by [1] is unclear, even in the basic aspect of whether it really represents authority records. Since "vtls..." appear to be rather generic numbers for the integrated library system on the target side it might even be that the "vtls" numbers for the authority file are from a different data pool and in principle conflicting with the "vtls" numbers for the library holdings...
So what went wrong in the first place probably was this Wikidata property being created at all! -- Gymel (talk) 06:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Although it may be frustrating to follow the links we now provide, I will not delete such entries because they may be valid ID for people as well as works, and the authority files may become web-accessible. And there is a simple quick fix if this project decides that all N6I should be deleted.
Scanning the navigation template above (new to me and useful), I think there is no alternative either "National" or "Other" that is likely to cover Irish people more than others. (The three writers named above are all at UNZ however.) --P64 (talk) 18:48, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Is there any valid example? Even the shown example is linking to the book, not to the creator page. --Jklamo (talk) 13:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Can't find an example. Not even sure if NLI has creator pages. --Pasleim (talk) 16:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Not only humans/ corporate authorsEdit

I just removed three such statements from Ludwig van Beethoven (Q255), as they were about works by him rather than himself. Maybe this property and its usage need a closer look? --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 00:38, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

The Authority Control gadget added an NLI identifier to American Conference for Irish Studies (Q45208094) that pulls up an unrelated book, even though ACIS is an author in their collection. - PKM (talk) 22:51, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Something similar happened to me right now with John Whessell (Q21289302). --Marsupium (talk) 19:25, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Mix'n'matchEdit

Per discussion, I deactivated the Mix'n'match catalog for this property, as it was presenting works as people. I have started scraping a new catalog for works. Not sure what to do with this property though.

Update: There is now a Mix'n'match catalog that links to actual authors. The IDs are a bit funny though (URL-encoded, with spaces). Maybe switch this property over? It is a Wikidata property for authority control for people (Q19595382) after all. --Magnus Manske (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Links brokenEdit

T.seppelt (talk) 21:00, 18 February 2016 (UTC) Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) GerardM (talk) 15:58, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Framawiki (please notify !) (talk) BrillLyle (talk) 10:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) salgo60 Salgo60 (talk) 07:09, 10 June 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Eihel (talk) 15:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

  Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control Hi! What's wrong wit P1946? I got in many entities link errors as here: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q358217&diff=prev&oldid=657699334 This link does not target, but the NLI-ID is stated at VIAF, too. What's wrong with the reachability of these links? Doc Taxon (talk) 18:55, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't know, but I do see that the value given as an example on the property page is bad; vtls000095925 links to en entry for a work ("Spleen: poems by Charles Boudelaire [sic]; freely translated into English by Laurence Lerner") and not about the author. @Hazmat2, Magnus Manske: who proposed the property and who added the formatter URL, respectively. In the meantime, and alternative formatter URL is http://viaf.org/processed/N6I|$1. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:57, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
P.S. See discussion, above, from 2016, about this very issue. Note also that the URLs in the Mix'n'Match catalogue also discussed above use a different format. What a mess. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:02, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Per discussion above. I think that property is wrong, as it links to work, not to author. So all uses are wrong and it should be removed.
The only question is to "reuse" property for work link or delete it completely.--Jklamo (talk) 12:04, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I made an inquiry to the National Library of Ireland about this identifier. Basically two questions: 1. Is the identifier in VIAF correct and 2. Is the authority record somehow accessible on their site. Let's see what comes out of it. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 23:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
@Sotho Tal Ker: Thanks! Let's see. Now I only get some black and white pictures of Sligo every time I click the Id of a random writer. Wikidelo (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
I got a reply. The VTLS files where added to VIAF as a test in 2014 and they had not been able to do any further things with them afterwards. The bibliographical records currently linked do share the same VTLS ID, but are totally independent from the authority record. No correlation whatsoever. The answers to my questions were, rephrased as bit by me: 1. The authority record linked in VIAF is correct, but it is not actually a record created by the NLI, it is a downloaded record from the Library of Congress authorities server. So basically a copy of the data with a new number in their own VTLS system. 2. There is no way to access the VTLS records from their site, they suggest the original source instead, which is just the existing LCCN records we already have. --Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
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