Property talk:P5830

Documentation

• Start a query
• Properties using this qualifier (statistics)
• Count

subject form
(qualifier) statement applies only to listed forms of statement's subject

Data type	Form
Example	no label (L16097) → no label (L16097-F1) no label (L87) → no label (L87-F5)
See also	usage example (P5831), subject sense (P6072)
Lists	Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P5830
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 15,746 Main statement 11 <0.1% of uses Qualifier 15,732 >99.9% of uses Reference 3 <0.1% of uses
Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Scope is as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5830#Scope, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase lexeme (Q51885771), Wikibase sense (Q54285715), Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5830#Entity types

More generic usage

I propose to change this property function to more generic usage with name "applies to form" following @Jura1: proposition about sense related property: Wikidata:Property proposal/usage example. Any objections? KaMan (talk) 06:15, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

@Lucas Werkmeister: Based on your comment on Wikidata:Property proposal/usage example, you might have an opinion here. - Nikki (talk) 10:38, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

@KaMan, Nikki: well, I have the same opinion on this… it sounds overly generic (like a catch-all “I need some form-type property right now”) and no examples have been provided. --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 21:56, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Qualifier for examples only?

Hi y'all,

On Wikidata_talk:Lexicographical_data, Robert Važan made a remark « Qualifier subject form (P5830) is intended to be used only with usage example (P5831). » I never though about this limitation and used this qualifier for several other properties (including but not limited to described by source (P1343), see ki (L69) for instance). I'm not the only one; @Fnielsen: did it with grammatical gender (P5185), eg. på (L3831), and image (P18), eg. restaffald (L40344), @Liamjamesperritt: did it her eat (L1340), see no (L477315) by @EnaldoSS: (for combines lexemes (P5238) and on form level!), and so on.

Here is an overview query:

SELECT ?prop (COUNT(?node) AS ?nb) WHERE {
  ?x ?prop ?node .
  ?node pq:P5830 ?value .
}
GROUP BY ?prop
ORDER BY DESC(?nb)

Try it!

Should we enfore "qualifier of P5831 only" rule or should we expand this property?

I'm more in favour of the second solution. And in the first case, what other properties should we use as qualifier?

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 11:26, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

PS: also pinging @KaMan, Nikki, Lucas Werkmeister: from previous and related discussion above. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

@VIGNERON: I think a broad "applies to form" (or "in form"/"with form") qualifier will be eventually needed, but the examples listed so far do not support the proposal. All listed examples have better alternatives:

• attested in (P5323) - Move to form level.
• described by source (P1343) - Move to form level.
• combines lexemes (P5238) - Use object form (P5548) instead.
• grammatical gender (P5185) - Specify gender as grammatical feature on affected forms (while keeping multiple unqualified grammatical gender (P5185) statements on lexeme level).
• image (P18) - Move to form level (if it's a valid use of image (P18) at all).

— Robert Važan (talk) 14:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I have tended to use the qualifier on image (P18) in a few cases where I have found a photo that show a word with form and sense. Using it for combines lexemes (P5238) is in my opinion wrong. For amour (L1021) a "applies to form" seems better. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 18:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC)