Property talk:P791

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ISIL
identifier for a library or related organization

Represents	International Standard Identifier for Libraries and Related Organizations (Q470458)
Applicable "stated in" value	not applicable
Data type	External identifier
Template parameter	"ISIL" in de:Template:Infobox Bibliothek "ISIL" in fr:Template:Infobox Bibliothèque
Domain	library (Q7075), museum (Q33506), archives (Q166118), type of library (Q25397890) or library network (Q26271642)organization (Q43229)
Allowed values	\D{1,4}\-[A-Za-z\-0-9:/]{1,11}
Example	Library of Congress (Q131454) → US-DLC Russian State Library (Q1048694) → RU-10017011
Formatter URL	https://w3id.org/isil/$1
Tracking: usage	Category:Pages using Wikidata property P791 (Q19889749)
See also	DBS ID (P4007), Archives Portal Europe ID (P7764)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other external identifier Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history Chart by item creation date Mix'n'match (Report) Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P791 Database reports/Constraint violations/P791 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 20,824 Main statement 20,646 99.1% of uses Qualifier 2 <0.1% of uses Reference 176 0.8% of uses
Search for values

[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Type “library (Q7075), museum (Q33506), archives (Q166118), type of library (Q25397890), library network (Q26271642)”: element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “library (Q7075), museum (Q33506), archives (Q166118), type of library (Q25397890), library network (Q26271642)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help) Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Books on Demand (Q831576), United States Copyright Office (Q1784058), Smithsonian Institution (Q131626), Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (Q4114428), Agence bibliographique de l'enseignement supérieur (Q2826570) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#type Q7075, Q33506, Q166118, Q25397890, Q26271642, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Unique value, hourly updated report, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)

Format “((KR0[0-6]\d{12})|(KR[0-6]\d{5})|([A-Z]{2}-|OCLC-|EUR-|O-|ZDB-)[ÅA-Za-z\-0-9:\/]{1,15})|”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Format, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Item “country (P17)”: Items with this property should also have “country (P17)”. (Help) Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Item P17, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Format “.{1,16}|”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Format, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Conflicts with “Mérimée ID (P380)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Conflicts with P380, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Type “organization (Q43229)”: element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “organization (Q43229)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help) Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#type Q43229, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Conflicts with “instance of (P31): Wikimedia disambiguation page (Q4167410)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help) List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#Conflicts with P31, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as reference (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help) Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#scope, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)

Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help) Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P791#allowed entity types, SPARQL (new)

Check ISIL DE-MUS-* Item with an ISIL identifier with DE-MUS- prefix but not a museum (Help) Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P791 ?value; wdt:P31 ?instance MINUS { VALUES ?classes { wd:Q33506 } . ?item wdt:P31/wdt:P279* ?classes . } . FILTER( REGEX( STR( ?value ), "^(DE-MUS-.+)$" ) ) . FILTER( ?item NOT IN ( wd:Q4115189, wd:Q13406268, wd:Q15397819 ) ) . } ORDER BY ?item List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P791#Check ISIL DE-MUS-*

This property is being used by: de:Vorlage:Infobox Bibliothek, de:Vorlage:Infobox Archiv, de:Vorlage:Infobox Museum, de:Vorlage:Infobox Museum in der Schweiz it:Template:Collegamenti esterni, it:Template:Biblioteca, it:Template:Anagrafe delle biblioteche als:Vorlage:Infobox Archiv, als:Vorlage:Infobox Bibliothek ja:Template:図書館, ja:Template:Infobox 図書館 vec:Modèl:Infobox de Biblioteca Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Formatter URL doesn't work well

Hi, I noticed that the URL chosen for this property works only with ISIL codes associated with Germany, but it doesn't work with, say, Italy or Switzerland. I think it would be better to remove the URL, since there is a search engine for every country that adhere to ISIL standard. --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 18:19, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree, otherwise the "International" in ISIL seems overly limited. --Steko (talk) 08:56, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

You might want to add custom code to MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js. --- Jura 09:22, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Just encountering the same issue for Danish Libraries. The alternative to remove the Formatter URL, would be to have several Formatter URL and then qualify them with Country? --VicVal (talk) 19:22, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, changing AuthorityControl.js shouldn't be too complicated. I hope to get this included in the new formatter url version as well. --- Jura 19:41, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Please see Wikidata:Property_proposal/Authority_control#DE-ISIL. --- Jura 09:34, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Not all registration authorities maintain web registries. Some are simple lists in PDF or other formats. Some have no public lists at all. See the "List" and "n/a" entries here: http://biblstandard.dk/isil/ Note that this doesn't make it any less of an identifier or any less important. Tfmorris1 (talk) 18:56, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

New Formatter URL

Dear administrators!

Please consider to change the Formatter URL from http://dispatch.opac.d-nb.de/DB=1.2/CMD?ACT=SRCHA&IKT=8529&TRM=$1 to https://w3id.org/isil/$1 with a value (?:DE|ZDB|US|IT|JP)-.* for the "format as a regular expression" property. Since I'm not allowed to change this.

This way not only German but also US, Italian and Japan ISILs will be linked.

See also https://github.com/perma-id/w3id.org/tree/master/isil

Cheers!  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by CKlee (talk • contribs). on Nov 3, 2016

+1 Acka47 (talk) 08:44, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done This is what we were expecting, thank you very much! --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 11:14, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• That seems problematic as it's a third party redirect service. We can add more in the gadget instead. BTW, even if it's added, former information shouldn't be overwritten.
  --- Jura 12:14, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Up until now, only DE-* codes were allowed to function, because for some reason a Germany-only URL was provided for a service that's supposed to be international. It's a redirect, I know, but at least it works.

Moreover, formatter URL (P1630) only allows for one value. Keeping the others as "deprecated" or using the gadget doesn't seem to me a good idea. Happy to revert my edits, as long as I see there's consensus on your concerns, not mine. --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 14:05, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

• You can add as many as you want. It just depends how. For P791, it needs to go in MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js with country codes.
  --- Jura 17:24, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

As the regex aren't supported yet for external-ids, I deprecated the formatter urls. The gadget will continue to provide the links .. @Pyrog: for info.

There is a ticket in phabricator to change this. --- Jura 20:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Change of datatype

Data type "external identifier"?

Hi, I was wondering why this property isn't defined to expect the data type "external identifier" (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Data_type#External_identifier). Wouldn't that fit? Best, Jana Hentschke (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree, it should be changed. --Epìdosis 11:19, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

• Please see Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2017/05#Changing_the_data_type_of_properties. --- Jura 12:27, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Proposal - Change Data type of ISIL (P791) from String to External identifier

I think String is the wrong type for ISIL (P791). Can we please change it to be External identifier.

As per Help:Data_type#Changing_datatype please indicate support/opposition below. Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 16:51, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

•  Comment for your attention @Epìdosis: @Jana_Hentschke: Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 17:10, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
•  Support but constraint violations should be looked at... ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:28, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
• Please see the problem mentioned above Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2017/05#Changing_the_data_type_of_properties. --- Jura 17:38, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
•  Support - again! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:26, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
•  Support --Epìdosis 18:37, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Proposal - Change from "Statements" to "Identifiers"

This property is sorted in "Statements" but it is in identifiers. Thus, it should be sorted in the section "Identifier".

See for example Library of Congress (Q131454): The property ISIL (P791) belongs to the chapter "Statement". --Eulenspiegel1 (talk) 23:12, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

It has been  Done. --Epìdosis 15:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Removal of single value constraint

Currently ISIL (P791) property constraint (P2302) single-value constraint (Q19474404). The problem is that ISIL does not make this guarantee:

Since this document allows the use of existing codes to be incorporated into the ISIL, it is possible that a given organization can have more than one ISIL. However, it is the intention of this document to minimize the number of codes.

ISO 15511:2019

I guess the right solution is to remove the constraint. Please discuss below. Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 20:44, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

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Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) GerardM (talk) 15:58, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Framawiki (please notify !) (talk) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Eihel (talk) 15:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC) NAH (talk) 20:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC) Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Epìdosis (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC) Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Bargioni (talk) 09:48, 02 May 2020 (UTC) --Carlobia (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC) Pablo Busatto (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC) --Matlin (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Emu (talk) 18:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC) Msuicat (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Uomovariabile (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC) Silva Selva (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 1-Byte (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Alessandra.Moi (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC) CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC) [[--Songceci (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)]] --moz (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC) AhavaCohen (talk) 14:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Kolja21 (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC) Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control

Discussion

•  Neutral can't vote ... but if I could I would vote support here Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 20:44, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
• Removed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Again on formatter URL (P1630)

It so happens that we have found a way to give access to all national sub-catalogues for libraries with the address https://w3id.org/isil/$1, that automatically redirects users to the particular national website.

My proposal is to remove all other formatter URLs, since they cannot work with current datatype and, given the solution provided by a World Wide Web Consortium (Q37033) group, they might induce people to add a potentially infinite list of links that are to be considered deprecated on Wikidata. --Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 10:28, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC) GerardM (talk) 15:58, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits Jneubert (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC) Framawiki (please notify !) (talk) Sic19 (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC) Wikidelo (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 06:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 03:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC) Daniel Mietchen (talk) 16:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC) Eihel (talk) 15:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC) NAH (talk) 20:29, 18 August 2019 (UTC) Iwan.Aucamp (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2019 (UTC) Epìdosis (talk) 23:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC) Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:52, 1 May 2020 (UTC) Bargioni (talk) 09:48, 02 May 2020 (UTC) --Carlobia (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC) Pablo Busatto (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC) --Matlin (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Emu (talk) 18:26, 19 July 2020 (UTC) Msuicat (talk) 21:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC) Uomovariabile (talk) 10:04, 27 October 2020 (UTC) Silva Selva (talk) 17:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 1-Byte (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Alessandra.Moi (talk) 17:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC) CamelCaseNick (talk) 21:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC) [[--Songceci (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)]] --moz (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2021 (UTC) AhavaCohen (talk) 14:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Kolja21 (talk) 17:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC) Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control--Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 10:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. So, I think that https://w3id.org/isil/$1 works for most, but not all the IDs: e.g. https://w3id.org/isil/RU-10017011 (one of the examples) seems not working. I've already set some days ago the formatter URL (P1630) https://w3id.org/isil/$1 as preferred value, but strangely the property displays no link (maybe a bug?). While I agree about removing formatter URLs starting with https://w3id.org/isil/$1, I'm not so sure about totally removing the other ones, which I think are correct and worth mentioning; probably they should be moved to third-party formatter URL (P3303), although I'm not sure an URL like http://anagrafe.iccu.sbn.it/isil/$1 can be considered "third party". Anyway, I'm convinced that in the present situation, with https://w3id.org/isil/$1 setted as preferred value for formatter URL (P1630), the link should already appear. --Epìdosis 10:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: It may not have shown a link because it was a string-type property, not external id. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:25, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@ArthurPSmith: OK, but now it is an external-id and the link still isn't shown. --Epìdosis 17:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Where are you not seeing it? The examples on the property page show as links (at least for me). ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@ArthurPSmith: No, the examples don't show as links (at least for me). --Epìdosis 19:12, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: that's weird. Maybe you have a javascript gadget enabled that's interfering somehow? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:49, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@ArthurPSmith: I would exclude it, since it also happens on browsers where I'm not logged-in. --Epìdosis 20:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC) P.S. T252167

• What would be the benefits of the proposal? Is there some storage issue?

Why not store the formatter to the original source?

As it's feature that is somewhere planned in phabricator, it's better to keep the data.

BTW, if redirects are possible, rather than using a third party redirector, I'd use the one on toolserver. --- Jura 11:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)