Talk:Q18168774

Full Windows version

Hi

One of the editors here seems to have doubt about the full version of Windows 10. He once contented that Redstone's version number is 10.1.14393 instead of 10.0.14393. The easiest way to confirm the Windows version however, is by running the Command Prompt:

Here is the Command Prompt on Threshold 1 (the initial release of Windows 10):

Here is the Command Prompt on Redstone 1 (Windows 10 Anniversary Update):

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 15:15, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

About codename

Hello

Some of you might have noticed that I did a series of 18 edits on this item today, most of which was removal. And you might want to know the reason.

"Threshold" and "Redstone" are product codenames. Hence, they should go into "codename" (a.k.a. "working title") property, not into "Alias" or "nickname".

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 05:34, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Inception date

I have removed the reference indicating the inception date was imported from the English Wikipedia. Better sources have been added, so I removed English Wikipedia in accordance with Help:Sources#Different types of sources. Jc3s5h (talk) 19:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

A mysterious language called "multiple"

It appears our esteemed colleague, User:Bencemac speaks a language called "Multiple". Please tell us, Bencememac, which country speaks this language? Or is it a family of languages? TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 04:53, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

FYI, Windows 10 is available in Arabic, Bulgarian, Chinese, Czech, Danish, German, Greek, English (British), English (American), Spanish (Mexican), Spanish, Estonian, Finnish, French (Canadian), French, Hebrew, Croatian, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Lithuanian, Latvian, Norwegian, Dutch Flemish, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Slovak, Slovenian, Serbian, Swedish, Thai, Turkish, Ukrainian. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 09:33, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@TheSmartOne2019: Where you see this language? Eurohunter (talk) 09:52, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Microsoft Volume Licensing Center.

But you can find a list on Microsoft Support and another on Microsoft Store. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 09:58, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

There is no such a language Microsoft Store, Microsoft Support (languages list below). Eurohunter (talk) 10:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

You keep using the word "language" in its singular form. What are you driving at?

Also both of your links are wrong. They change the languages of microsoft.com and support.microsoft.com respectively, not the languages of Windows.

Try this one: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/collections/localexperiencepacks?cat0=devices&rtc=1

Or this one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14236/language-packs

TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 10:23, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

There is no too. Eurohunter (talk) 10:48, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

There is no what? TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 10:51, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Language called "Multiple". Eurohunter (talk) 12:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 05:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

@TheSmartOne2019: So? Eurohunter (talk) 17:22, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

So, I wrote this topic. Next thing I know, I'm talking to a Polish person who does not understand plain English, let alone English sarcasm. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 04:14, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@TheSmartOne2019: I asked you to explain problem to understand it so we could solve it. Wikidata is not place for sarcasam. Eurohunter (talk) 16:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

And yet, someone on Wikidata has created a language called "multiple". That's the problem. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Link? Eurohunter (talk) 19:26, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

• @TheSmartOne2019, Eurohunter: multiple languages (Q20923490) is in fact an ISO standard. It's not a language but is a blanket descriptor for anything that's multilingual, such as Windows. For now, I'm fine with listing all languages since it provides more complete information. On the other hand, I do support keeping multiple languages listed in addition, since Windows has multilingual functionality (language packs allow multiple users to use different languages). However, there also is no community consensus as to whether to prefer this item or to list every language. I think a discussion at Wikidata:Project chat would be good.--Jasper Deng (talk) 22:19, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Grossly incorrect statements for this topic

I removed or corrected the following grossly incorrect statements:

• "Metro" as the name of the "GUI toolkit or framework": "Metro" was the codename of a design language, not any framework. If you are looking for the associated framework, it is called "Windows Runtime".
• "Windows shell" as the name of the "GUI toolkit or framework": Windows Shell (with capital S) is truly the name of the Windows GUI, but the description of "GUI toolkit or framework" property gives such examples as "Qt" and "GTK". In that line, Windows has "Windows Runtime", "Windows Presentation Foundation", and "Windows Forms". Of course, I added all of these before. User:Bencemac mass-reverted them all and called me a vandal. In the interest of avoiding an edit war, I won't add them again.
• "ISO image" as the name of an "update method": To say an ISO image is an update method is analogous to listing "paved street" among restaurants and other food-serving establishments, just because deliverymen use paved streets to deliver food to houses. But in truth, paved streets are merely facilities that an organization (e.g., restaurant or club) uses. An ISO image is just like that; the mean of update (called Windows Installation Source) is transferred with via ISO images as intermediate vessels.
• "NuGet" as the name of a "package management system": NuGet is not part of Windows 10. Windows 10's package management system is the Store app.

TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 05:33, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I did not call you a “vandal”, so that is simple not true. You wrote that “in the interest of avoiding an edit war, I won't add them again” – and you did in a hour, so believing you is kinda hard. You are deleting valid statements such as multiple languages (Q20923490), proprietary software (Q218616) or edition or translation of (P629) which are correct and included in the articles of the subject (e.g. English one). Please do not do it. Bencemac (talk) 06:03, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

The statement "I won't add them again" applies to "Windows Runtime", "Windows Presentation Foundation", and "Windows Forms". And that's still true. Before calling me liar, try reading carefully.

Also Windows 10 is not an edition or translation of something called "Windows". It has editions and translations itself. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 06:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I protected the page because of the edit-warring. Please reach consensus with the community. And stop personal attacking. Bencemac (talk) 06:10, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I stop personal attacking? You're the one calling me a liar!

And as for edit warring, you are the one who keeps reverting the preferred version without so much as saying what's wrong with each statement. Your bulk reverting is beyond disruptive. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 06:23, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

The English article contains these information and sources as well (e.g. for multiple languages (Q20923490)). If you wait, I add them first so I do not have to insert them twice. My point is based on the English article; have you read it? If not, please do it. Every information can be found there. Bencemac (talk) 06:20, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I seriously think it is you who should read that article, not me. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 06:23, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Using the OS myself for a while, I have to side with TheSmartOne2019 on this matter. For example, I hadn't even heard of NuGet until now and it is properly the PMS for Visual Studio, not Windows 10 (it's not even mentioned in the English article).--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:27, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

And that is not my problem. My problem is that she/he is deleting statements which are against the English (and other) articles and common sense. Bencemac (talk) 06:31, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Except, you are incorrect in that regard. I'm a native English speaker, a very experienced user of this software, and a contributor to such articles on the English Wikipedia, and I am going to tell you, bluntly, that the English Wikipedia article supports his view, not yours, I'm afraid.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:33, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Then one by one; deleting multiple languages (Q20923490) is incorrect. Windows 10 proprietary operating systems, update method fixed and sourced per the article. edition or translation of (P629) was correct, see Microsoft Windows (Q1406). Currently we can mark them only this way. The article clearly says that “Default user interface Windows shell” as well “Windows shell is the graphical user interface for the Microsoft Windows operating system”. Metro is graphical and touch user interface as well, so I can be included. Do not forget that Windows 10 can be used with touch devices. NutGet was not my problem, so it can be deleted if there is no valid source for it. With fixing and sourcing the update method, I believe that we do not have other. Bencemac (talk) 06:57, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

That's a red herring (Q572959) with respect to the statements above.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:37, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

With respect to GUI toolkit or framework (P1414), you need to distinguish between the GUI itself and the underlying window-displaying software framework. The two are not the same. GUI toolkit or framework (P1414) is the latter, not the former, so once again that is not correct. The one thing I agree with you on is the multiple languages claim.--Jasper Deng (talk) 06:53, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bencemac: I knew you would say that. That's why I opened a whole thread for it. And I am ready to forfeit that aspect for now. Let's go to the rest. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 06:40, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bencemac: Please, as a courtesy to the rest of us, don't edit your comment substantially after others have replied to it; it destroys the context of their comments. --Jasper Deng (talk) 06:58, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I had to keep it in one place instead of writing new lines again and again. Bencemac (talk) 07:01, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

No you really didn't have to; it's more important to preserve the context for others' comments so it's easy to follow the discussion.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:02, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bencemac: I hope you don't mind me un-indenting the discussion. All this cross-talk is making me dizzy.

Regarding your contributions, they are excellent. Good job adding WSUS and Shareware.

Now, as for what remains, I think:

• Instead of edition or translation of (P629) we must use subclass of (P279).
• language of work or name (P407) right now says "multiple languages". Why does it not say "English", "Arabic", "German", "French", etc.? (I can give you all the languages.)
• For GUI toolkit or framework (P1414):
  Metro (Q1148750) is wrong. Metro is not a GUI toolkit or framework. Not by a long shot. I know it has come from the Russian Wikipedia but Russians are simply wrong. Where is their source?
• For package management system (P3033):
  NuGet (Q975870) is wrong. Like I said, it can be installed on PowerShell or Visual Studio but does not come with Windows. Microsoft Store (Q135288) is more appropriate.

TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 09:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

It looks okay for me. Bencemac (talk) 07:19, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

SCCM

@TheSmartOne2019: As someone who now updates Windows as part of a job, the update method should not be SCCM. It should be Windows Update. SCCM is merely a tool that automates the triggering of Windows Update, but the update mechanism is always ultimately Windows Update.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Okay. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 09:15, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I've taken that as your agreeing that I can remove that claim, so I just did. I would even argue that WSUS should not be listed either, since the update mechanism itself is still Windows Update.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, you can. TheSmartOne2019 (talk) 09:18, 21 July 2019 (UTC)