User talk:Innocent bystander/Archive 3

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Vogone talk 16:22, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

gratitude (Q2728730) -- Lavallen (talk) 16:36, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Grattis, kul att se! /Hangsna (talk) 08:33, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

ELSTAT geographical code (P1116)Edit

Just created ELSTAT geographical code (P1116). Thank you for participating in the discussion. --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

EHAK id (P1140)Edit

Just created EHAK id (P1140). --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:20, 4 February 2014 (UTC)


This is not the German edition, but the English edition with a german translation … |FDMS 10:18, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Have you read Wikidata:Wikisource? Only disambigs are supposed to link to Q7813, not text-editions. -- Lavallen (talk) 10:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the link, as after reading WD:WS the implementation of Wikisource in Wikidata is quite confusing for me it is probably the best if I ignore Wikisource edits in the future. |FDMS 10:55, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
The problem is that Wikisource has used Interwiki in another way than most other projects. There can (theoretically) be more than one German edition on de.wikisource. In this way, we will in the future be able to have interwiki to all such editions, no matter how many they are in the same language. -- Lavallen (talk) 10:59, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Well, the future seems to be something to be very excited about at Wikidata :) … |FDMS 11:02, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


Rather the lack of a mobile version of Wikidata. :-P -- Bene* talk 16:30, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

That's more or less one reason I have installed this. -- Lavallen (talk) 16:34, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Bokförlag x publishing companyEdit

Hi, I was solving some interwiki problems in dewiki and found an interesting thing you could help me with. That is, in some items bokförlag is connected with publishing company and in some items with book publishing company. What is right? More times it's with publishing company but I can see bokförlag. There might also be problems with another languages. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 17:01, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

In Swedish "Bokförlag" is "book publishing company", but it does not mean that a bokförlag cannot publish newpapers and other things. There is also an article "Musikförlag", publishing music, record, artists. They are both subclasses to the Swedish word "Utgivare", which litteraly is "publisher/publishing company". "Förlag" can also be translated to other things, and the word is derived from the money the publisher gives to the Author, often before a single copy of the book has been sold. -- Lavallen (talk) 19:20, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
After some more thoughts, do not put to much attentions to the "bok"-part in the Swedish word "Bokförläggare". It's mainly added to separate the word from "Förläggare" as a disambig-subject. -- Lavallen (talk) 19:36, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
An example: sv:Kategori:Bokförlag efter land - Category:Publishing companies by country (Q5904826) or Category:Book publishing companies by country (Q9307249)? Matěj Suchánek (talk) 19:56, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
I have moved the Swedish sitelink for the category. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:15, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Requests for deletionsEdit

Hi, where I can find this discussion? --Termininja (talk) 07:55, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

It's out there somewhere! :)
I'm not an expert in taxonomy, but I know that much, that Wikidata is not only about Interwiki. It's also about creating a structure with information about the content of our articles..
And monotypic taxa do normally have only one article in all our projects, a merged article about two (or more) levels in the taxonomic hierarchy. But we still need items for all levels in the hierarchy. It's possible that I should not have reverted all your edits. (I'm far from an expert in fishes.) But after the response I got from Succu, I choosed to preserve the items as they looked before your edits. If you still insist on redo those edits, feel free to do so. I know to little about taxonomy to dare to revert you again. -- Lavallen (talk) 08:29, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Both links in Q2937672 are redirects. So they should be removed, but the item has to be kept. Its used for parent taxon (P171). --Succu (talk) 08:37, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
I understand, the both links are removed again. Thank you for this information. --Termininja (talk) 09:10, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: Wikisource-itemsEdit

So what shoule I do with the items, leave them orphan? The Japanese one wasn't linked to any other language so I am trying to solve this problem (but it seems that a bigger problem is being caused). By the way, the page in Japanese got orphan after being Wikidataified. --H2NCH2COOH (talk) 08:35, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for restoring those items. But why should the system allow users to add multilingual links of Wikisource to a single item? That's a silly design. --H2NCH2COOH (talk) 11:51, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes I know that separated items are vital because information of different version cannot be add to one item, but the system's accepting my wrong operation was also a mistake. I mean, the system should not accept the second Wikisource article, so that no one will make the same mistake. --H2NCH2COOH (talk) 08:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

"Amir" and "Ladsgroup"Edit

what I have add was:

:{{ping|Ladsgroup}} [[User:Hoo man]] will probably do this.--[[User:GZWDer|GZWDer]] ([[User talk:GZWDer|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 05:31, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

--GZWDer (talk) 05:15, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, and since it was a response to a thread started by "User:Ladsgroup|Amir", I thought you maybe have missed that they are identical. It took some weeks for me to discover that. -- Lavallen (talk) 05:31, 20 February 2014 (UTC)


Du kanske kan förklara för mig eller så vet du kanske var det passar att ta upp frågan: Är verkligen "uttalanden" en bra översättning av "statements" här på Wikidata? /Hangsna (talk) 22:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Nej, jag tycker inte det. Jag är iofs ingen expert på semantik, och hade jag läst om ämnet, hade jag sannolikt gjort det på ett främmande tungomål. Men det känns inte som det passar i munnen särskilt bra. Samtidigt ska det inte vara något som ger konflikt med vad man kan översätta "Claim" till. Se Help:Statements.
Och efter att jag lagt ner Bybrunnen vet jag inte om det finns någon bra svensk sida att diskutera det här. (Men du hade nog inte fått några svar ändå.) Det är nog på WP's WF som man enklast får svar från fler. Jag har fått uppfattningen att tex Mange01 intresserat sig för semantik, så han kanske vet. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:55, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Vad översätter vi "Claims" med här, jag hittar det inte? Jag skulle tycka att "uppgifter" skulle passa bättre på MediaWiki:Wikibase-statements/sv men jag är ju inte direkt språkligt utbildad. /Hangsna (talk) 14:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Jag vet inte om vi översätter "claims" någonstans egentligen, det syns främst i api't och det översätts ju aldrig. "Påstående(n)" tycker jag låter mer stringent än "Uppgift(er)" eller "Uttalande(n)", men jag tycker det vore bra om vi kunde utgå från vad semantikerna säger, om de nu öht talar svenska. -- Lavallen (talk) 15:02, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
WMSE planerar ett översättningssprint till 6 April där jag även funderade på om man även skulle plocka in Wikidata:Ordlista för översättning. Jag såg från Bybrunnen att du inte tyckte översättning av WD var högprioriterat (då det fortfarande är i snabb förändring) men jag undrar om inte just Ordlistan kan vara intressant då det är dit man pekas i diverse dokumentation. Många av termerna finns dessutom redan översatta i och detta skulle vara en bra möjlighet att se över existerande terminologi samt spika den kvarvarande terminologin (vad blir t.ex. deprecated).
Min fråga är således 1) vad tror du om översättning av Ordlistan, 2) skulle du vara intresserad av att delta (på distans) på översättningssprintet alternativt granska/korrläsa det wikidatarelaterade resultatet (då du nog är den som har bäst insyn i Wikidata samt även var meddelanden syns).
Apropå översättning undrar jag om det inte är dags att översätta huvudnamnrymden till något annat än "Sida" (Objekt enligt nuvarande terminologi). /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 11:21, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
"Den inledande utvecklingen av Wikidata syftar på arbetet som skall utföras av den Wikidatas ursprungliga utvecklingsgrupp". Utvecklingen går fort som sagt, kanke behöver se över orginaltexten om det verkligen är relevant att översätta vissa saker...
Jag kan titta på resultatet och höra av mig om jag ser något konstigt, om jag inte lyckas fixa det själv.
Funderat på om "Post/Databaspost" vore en bättre översättning, rent tekniskt, men risken finns att det kan misstolkas, så objekt är kanske bättre. -- Lavallen (talk) 12:32, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Något jag tror vore värdefullt, det är om ni tittar på labels i en del propertys. Många saknar fortfarande label, ibland för att ingen svensktalande här är bekant med ämnet eller för att de inte stött på propertyn än. Tyvärr, så gör fallback-systemet att man inte alltid ser om en property har svensk label eller inte. Det man ser kan vara den engelska, tyska eller det danska namnet på propertyn, och missar att det inte finns ngn svensk, eller att den svenska inte är bra översatt. -- Lavallen (talk) 12:39, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
OK. Då tar jag med Ordlistan i förslaget men har även med wikidata-terminator. Finns tyvärr ingen property funktion inbyggd där. /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 14:25, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Ska se om jag kan få ihop något alternativ. -- Lavallen (talk) 14:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Tack. Sprinten ligger nu uppe på Wikiträffar. /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 16:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
@André Costa (WMSE): Gör nu en ny körning med resultat på User:Innocent bot/Svensk label till propertys. -- Lavallen (talk) 13:02, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Så ungefär 1/3 av alla properties saknar svensk etikett. Ska ta med den på sprintet. Finns det något sätt att sortera listan efter hur ofta de används? /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 16:06, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Kan kika på det, men det blir i så fall en förenklad version, med antalet upp till 5000. Ska jag kolla antalet över det, blir körningen kostsam. -- Lavallen (talk) 16:20, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
@André Costa (WMSE): Så! Att det står "5000" betyder då i praktiken ">5000". DEt är tekniskt möjligt att få en exaktare siffra, men det handlar om hur mycket kraft jag ska våga pumpa ur servrarna för det här. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:28, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Många tack =). /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 11:44, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Q7813)Edit

Mahir256 (talkcontribslogs) nominated the Wikisource editions to be merged into the general item. Maybe it's better that you handle these requests? -      - (Cycn/talk) 09:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
For the record, I have talked with Mahir256 on hir user_talk and started a general discussion on WD:AN. No blame on Mahir or anybody else, this is really tricky and sometimes contraintuitive! -- 15:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Property för KulturNavEdit

Hej. Skulle du kunna ta en titt påproperty proposal för KulturNav. Har inte fått någon feedback och undrar om detta beror på själva förslaget eller på att det missats. Tack /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 11:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Nog helt enkelt så att inte finns tillräckligt manga som förstår och intresserat sig för konceptet. Men förslaget är så typiskt för den här typen av propertys att jag bedömer den som självklar att den ska skapas. -- Lavallen (talk) 11:45, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Tack. Hur gör man för att id-nr automatiskt ska länka ut (i stil med hur Library of Congress authority ID (P244) fungerar på Ralph Erskine (Q959698))? /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 09:35, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah. Hittade MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js. Antar att det bara tar en stund att komma igenom cachar =) /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 09:42, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Jag funderade lite på källor. Räcker något i stil med [2]? Eller bör det göras ännu tydligare att det egentligen kommer från det specifika datasetet [3] där även licensen är tydlig. Sitter på listan med ArkDes wikidata-kopplingar men vill se till att källan blir bra innan de läggs in. /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 10:28, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
"Importerad från" bör du undvika. Den är särskilt avsedd för icke-källor lik Wikipedia. Du bör kanske snarare snegla på hur man källbelagt tex Freebase ID (P646) eller använda referens-url. Är det ett större jobb du tittar på bör du nog gå igenom en RfP-process och då får du råd om källor där. - Lavallen (talk) 12:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Tack. stated in (P248) + retrieved (P813) känns som en bättre kombination, troligen i kombination med att ett mer specifikt objekt skapas för datasetet. Jag ser nu att det handlar om drygt 700 id så RfP kanske är bäst. /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 14:08, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Verk eller utgåvaEdit

Hi, LIBRIS editions (P1182) is called "Libris editions" in English, but translated into Swedish as "libris-verk". A work (verk) can have many editions (utgåvar), so it seems to me like this translation is not a good one, but I'm unsure if it's the Swedish or English version which is most true to how this identifier is actually used in the Libris catalogue. Do you know if it refers to a specific edition, or if different editions can be grouped together under the same id? Danmichaelo (talk) 23:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

I translated "work" in contrast to the "author"-part of the catalogue, not in contrast to "edition".
I think "editions" is the correct description of the catalogue, but that is true only when it comes to modern books (with ISBN and other well defined metadata). In older books you may find one item in the catalogue for each sample of the book. This since each library may have described the books differently when the catalogue was constructed. And as long as the description is different they keep separate items, but I doubt that was the intension with the catalogue. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:06, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


Just to draw your attention to Q7813 where many Wikisource links have been imported. I saw in the history that you reverted this in March, so I wondered if you'd have an opinion on the items currently at WD:RfD. Cheers. Delsion23 (talk) 20:34, 22 April 2014 (UTC)



Some time ago you created Riksdagen person-ID (P1214). I thought you might be interested in the proposal for a similar property at Wikidata:Property_proposal/ ----- Jura 15:36, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I lost that page in my watch-list when I changed username! -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 07:03, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
BTW, there is another one for Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (Q939743) at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Person#PACE_member_id. --- Jura 07:05, 16 May 2014 (UTC)


Hi Lavallen--

I see that en-wiki's "Church of Nossa Senhora da Nazaré" is linked to "Igreja de Nossa Senhora da Nazaré", a pt-wiki dab page. Instead, it should be linked to the Portuguese wiki article "Santuário de Nossa Senhora da Nazaré", but for the life of me I can't figure out how y'all's system works. Can you correct this for me? Feel free to double-check me. Tack sa mycket, Drmies (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I have added the pt-page to Sanctuary of Our Lady of Nazaré (Q5116937) and removed the classic iw ([[pt:...]]) on enwp. -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 09:08, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Alternative to P150Edit

Hi! What is the property to list the settlements of a municipality? --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 20:51, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you have to wait for querys, if you cannot regard the settlements as an administrative division of the municip, and in the case of Sweden, you can't. -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 06:29, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
The item itself will never list its settlements? Why there is no property for this just like P150? --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 10:23, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Because you, in most cases, cannot divide an area in settlements and in that way simply describe the area. And there can be more than one way to divide an area in settlements. This is not always true with contains administrative territorial entity (P150) either, but in most cases it is. (Denmark is one example, where a few former military areas are outside the administrative division.)
In Sweden, we have 1. statisticly defined settlements, 2. a traditional division in villages and 3. informal defined settlements. One area can be in several of these at the same time, and the borders between informal defined settlements are not easily described. I live in several different settlements depending on who you ask. The municipality where I live, also have very large uninhabited areas, which never have belonged to any settlement. The conclusion is that settlements cannot "divide" any entity in a simple way here in Sweden.
BUT: If the settlements can be described as a form of administrative division, then I think you can use P150 for them.
Another way to describe the problem: Sweden can easily be described as a set of 21 counties, but the set of settlements in a municipality is not easy to describe. (It's not easy to decide if settlement X should be in that set or not, since settlement X also can be described as a part of settlement Y.)
-- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 15:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Administrative division is about administration. I can tell very exactly which settlements a municipality administers, like applies to jurisdiction (P1001). Even physical territorial boundaries exist. I think we should be able to list these settlements, just as with P150. And just as located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) has the alternative P1134 (P1134), P150 also should have an alternative. --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 15:59, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, that "administrative division" is about "administration" was my thought also, whey I first met the idea here.
But that is not how "administrative division" is used here on Wikidata. It's often more about geography than real administration. Swedish districts is for example nothing else than some lines on a map. You will only meet them in censuses.
This way of thinking sometimes gives us real headache, since the idea comes from a few young nations (US and Germany for example) with a very simple hierarchy of administrative units. Sweden have existed as a nation for more than half a millennia, and the current system with administrative units has evolved from how it looked like when Scandinavia became christian almost 1000 years ago. Every change of the maps during this time affects how it looks today, and it looks like overcooked spaghetti (Q20026)! -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 11:34, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Which property should be used when there is no conflict between administration and geography? Shouldn't we create one? --JulesWinnfield-hu (talk) 16:13, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Feel free to propose one. My activity-level here is low at the moment, and I do not know when (or even if) I will return at my former activity-level. -- Innocent bystander (talk) (The user previously known as Lavallen) 06:40, 1 June 2014 (UTC)


Jag frågar dig som har koll på wd. Ska verkligen denna ha "human"? /Hangsna (talk) 13:52, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Nja, inte hel koll idag, då jag inte sysslat med biografier I någon store grad (fan ta autocorrect) men någon har uppenbarligen ändrat till litterär figure nu, vilket är en möjlig lösning. Kvinna är nog helt korrekt. Ett problem med mytologiska och litterära gestalter är att det kan finnas hur manga möjliga motsägelser som helst. Det finns ju tex forskare som talar om Oden som en historisk person (levde runt år 0), och hävdar att Asgård ligger någonstans I Östra Europa. Andra möjliga motsägelser ser jag själv när jag laser StarTrek-romaner. När dog Thomas Riker? Enl visa böcker dödades han som en del av Marquis, medan jag hittar honom levande I andra böcker, då tjänstgörande som informell underrättelse-agent åt amiral Will Riker. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 18:05, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
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