Mattinbgn

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Welcome to Wikidata, Mattinbgn!

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Best regards! Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:27, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

It would be useful

If you can point to something that says 'aliases' are not or what, as your edit at Carnarvon feels like a hangover from wp en issues, and I would have thought that is not what wikidata is about... cheers sats (talk) 15:11, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi Sats. Try Help:Label#Disambiguation information belongs in the description. Cheers, Mattinbgn (talk) 20:41, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

um, https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Aliases  ?? sats (talk) 23:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I made two edits to Carnarvon.

• This one, changing the label from Carnarvon, Western Australia to Carnarvon - in line with Help:Label#Disambiguation information belongs in the description, and
• this one removing an alias that was exactly the same as the (edited) label - i.e. not an alternative name.

Not sure what I am doing that is so wrong or a "hangover" from enwiki - certainly not my intention to editwar over names. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 23:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe I am remembering the issues on wp en, and not seeing clearly what you are up to here - in that case my sincerest apologies, maybe I am totally misreading the meaning and utility of aka/alias function, but in some cases I do think there is a rationale for adding variants !!sats (talk) 23:55, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, variants can and should be added but I didn't remove any variants - I removed an alias that was exactly the same as the label! The label should not include disambiguation, so I fixed that and then the alias was exactly the same as the new label, so I deleted the alias. I am still little puzzled as to what I have done to generate this reaction or how it ties in with enwiki. I am not trying to be difficult, not at all - one of the reasons I am here is that discussion of my edits on enwiki went beyond criticism of my edits to personal attacks on my motives, so I am trying to lead a quiet life here (and sticking to paintings on enwiki). I am truly, honestly here without any agenda re: disambiguation. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 07:54, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

My sincerest apologies, for some bizarre reason I have always had a problem with reading diffs, you are correct in what you say and it is my problem not yours, please enjoy the quiet of data, it is a great place, and dont let me spoil the experience for you, it is great to think that there is so much Australian material that can do with improvement and not many others touching it! Once again sorry. sats (talk) 10:51, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Electorates

I have given this very issue much thought as far back as two years ago and as recently as last night. The main problems are electoral unit (Q192611) is an item, not a property; and the property electoral district (P768) is set as a qualifier referring to a person (or more specifically their parliamentary term).

I looked for precedence in the UK and US, but there has not been much work done in this space as far as I can see relating to mapping localities to electorates on a large scale.

I did find a property proposal (Wikidata:Property proposal/District) for a specific subclass property related to electoral districts for locations (although the word "district" is quite ambiguous), but the three Oppose !votes say to use P131 instead!

In terms of the word "administrative" in the description of P131, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider electorates as administrative regions – while they don't have a governing body per se, they are certainly used for administration of elections. --Canley (talk) 23:53, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. I thought you would have given it some thought and I wasn't even sure where to start looking for precedents etc. I am still not comfortable with it, but short of a new property I can't see an alternative. Could we use a qualifier in the P131 statement to show the role of the different entities- i.e State/Territory/LGA/Electorate? -- Mattinbgn (talk) 00:33, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Sure, it's possible, but I couldn't find a suitable property to use as a qualifier in Wikidata:List of properties/Geographical feature, however a generic one such as object has role (P3831) might suffice. What do you think? For example, object has role (P3831): electoral district of Queensland (Q5356184). It can be confusing as displayed on a raw item page (not in Reasonator) without disambiguation text, a description or instance type of the object, but from a data/querying perspective it's easy to filter or query by the instance type. If a better property or qualifier is created I can roll them back using QS2 – I will need to do this anyway to some extent to apply the redistribution dates and changes, so like with the ABS imports it's more about connecting the item IDs together at this stage and they can be refined or better qualified later. --Canley (talk) 02:51, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I am a neophyte with this and happy to rely on your judgement. Agree it is more important to link at this stage and refinement can come later, if needed. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 05:52, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Making a late entry into this conversation. Couldn't we make "located in state", "located in local government area", "located in federal electorate", "located in state electorate" all instances of "located in the administrative territorial entity"? I think that would be preferable to some kind of qualifier. Kerry Raymond (talk) 05:11, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I realise these means creating new properties and see your comment above about precedent, but I think we have to bite the bullet. If "located in administrative territorial entity" is too overloaded, sooner or later we will get mistakes made. For Australian, the construct of state/LGA/federal electorate/state electorate are quite distinct. Having spent a lot of years modelling for OMG standards, I know that the modelling shortcut you take early in the piece always ends up biting you later. Kerry Raymond (talk) 05:15, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

• Ping @Canley: - see above

Mary Fairfax

Um, Warwick Fairfax (Q7971130) is Mary Fairfax's son, not her spouse! It should be Warwick Oswald Fairfax (Q7971166). --Canley (talk) 01:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

No worries. I added the start and end dates and didn't check the name, Poor "Young Wokka"!

NSW LGAs

No, nothing wrong with using P131! – what happened was I was trying to do a bulk import of LGAs for all NSW localities in QuickStatements. It's a bit difficult because the NSW Geographic Names Board hasn't updated their database with the new councils, so I used a geographic intersection method to do it. I applied about 500 statements out of ~3,800, and then was spot checking and found some that seemed to be wrong, so I rolled back my import and started looking at another way to do it. I'm sorry if that removed some of your edits (although in the three examples you linked to it looks like I added the LGA then rolled it back the next day), but it should all be restored shortly when I can work out a definitive dataset.

The two ways of getting the data I'm looking at are:

1. Use the ABS mesh block data to map SSCs to LGAs. The 2016 SSC data now matches the gazetted localities, and the ABS has used the new NSW council areas.
2. Apply the old LGA allocations from the GNB data, and then apply the new council using the merger data with start and end date qualifiers – this has the advantage of showing the actual data over time in Wikidata.

--Canley (talk)

PS, as per the discussion above with Kerry, you've probably seen that I have been using P3831 (object has role) as a qualifier of P131 to distinguish the administrative entity type, which I think works quite well. It hasn't been applied to older manual edits yet, but I will go back and apply the qualifier when the national dataset is more complete.

Thanks - that makes sense. It may not have rolled back any of my edits - I may have not added the LGA to those items - there has been no systematic additions of LGAs from me - only really adding them as I update other properties. I am usingthe "object has role" qualifier as well on newer edits. Also, I have attempted to add historic LGA data where appropriate - which may be harder to find a definitive dataset for this. A systematic approach to the whole LGA issue would be a better outcome. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 02:27, 20 March 2018 (UTC)