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Best regards! Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 15:25, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Do not disrupt important itemsEdit

Hello, if you want to do large-scale changes such as you just did in Yuan Empire (Q7313), please discuss them beforehand. Your merging of two different concepts was reverted.Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 08:47, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for response.
You come form Czech Wikipedia. I found that only Czech Wikipedia (Q191168) have two encyclopedic article (Q13433827)cs:Dynastie_Jüan and cs:Říše_Jüan
Other wikipedia are same. In Chinese, Yuan Empire (Q7313) and Yuan dynasty (Q10531418) are talking about same thing such as zh, zh_yue, zh_classical, zh_min_nan, gan. --Nostalgiacn (talk) 11:03, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál, Nostalgiacn: Pardon, but why not Wikimedia permanent duplicate item (Q21286738) for one? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226, Nostalgiacn: cs:Dynastie_Jüan is dynasty (Q164950), cs:Říše_Jüan is empire (Q48349) Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 14:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál, Liuxinyu970226:I know the difference between dynasty (Q164950) and empire (Q48349). The situation is only Czech Wikipedia (Q191168) separate Yuan(元) in two articles.
In other historical Chinese state (Q50068795), like Tang(唐) cs:Říše_Tchangempire (Q48349)) and cs:Dynastie Tchangdynasty (Q164950) Redirect page) are one articles, also the Qing(清) cs:Říše Čchingempire (Q48349)) and cs:Dynastie Čchingdynasty (Q164950) Redirect page).
Moveing Yuan Empire (Q7313) wiki article to Yuan dynasty (Q10531418) is unsuitable in 8th of March. Using Wikimedia permanent duplicate item (Q21286738) in Yuan dynasty (Q10531418) maybe a good choice. --Nostalgiacn (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Nostalgiacn: Why do you mind that Czech Wikipedia has two articles? Isn't it a good thing? Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 19:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
@Vojtěch Dostál:  Oppose They can be different in Czech, but they are really same in Chinese. You still need to provide solution on this. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:08, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that it's the same in Chinese. It is enough that at least one language has two concepts. Even English language distinguishes between the words dynasty (Q164950) and empire (Q48349).Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 06:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
@Nk, BotNinja, Ted Masters: Really? bg:Юен in Bulgarian means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Beaukarpo: Really? bo:ཡོན་རྒྱལ་རབས། in Tibetan means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Elvonudinium, WOSlinker: Really? bxr:Ехэ Юань Улас in Buryat means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@唐吉訶德的侍從, GnuDoyng, Kiwifist: Really? cdo:Nguòng-dièu in Min Dong Chinese means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@PCode, Ptbotgourou, Eaglewanli, Viktor, Chuvash2014: Really? cv:Юань йăх-несĕлĕ in Chuvash means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Caoimheen3: Really? ga:Ríora Yuan in Irish means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Symane: Really? gan:元 in Gan Chinese means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Нұрлан Рахымжанов, Мұхамеджан Амангелді, Ulan, Isslam: Really? kk:Юань Империясы in Kazakh means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Ankhaa1002, Zorigt, Eaglewanli, Hoshi.sasori, MongolWiki:@Губин Михаил, Megzer, Duke7dunk, Boldbdd, Palberge:@Khorichar, Matiia, Crimean1900, Vostre, Diogenes4196:@Munkhzaya.E, XylanN, Vanchinbal, Бмхүн, Orgio89: Really? mn:Юань улс in Mongolian means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Abbas dhothar: Really? pnb:یوآن راجٹبر in Western Punjabi means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Barys9, Көпек, Agilight: Really? tyv:Юан күрүнези in Tuvan means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Huuchin, Calmouk, Eaglewanli: Really? xal:Юан өнчин төр in Oirat (Kalmyk) means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
Really? za:Yienzciuz in Zhuang means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@美女森理世~zh-classicalwiki, Itsmine, K1234567890y, 鳥甲, Ericyuen:@Choulin, Ptbotgourou, 損齋, Joe young yu, VitaDei:@Magioladitis, 1qw1as1zx, Dongbeier, Matthewrui, Davidzdh:@Бмхүн: Really? lzh:元 in Literary Chinese means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@唐吉訶德的侍從, A-lú-mih: Really? nan:Goân-tiâu in Min Nan Chinese means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?
@Maui, SC96, Momingsze, WikiCantona, Perus126:@1qw1as1zx, Shinjiman, 昏君, Marcus Napoleon Ceasar: Really? yue:大元 in Cantonese means an Empire instead of a Dynasty?

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:13, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

  Comment @Vojtěch Dostál: By asking a Cantonese speaker outside of Wikimedia sites, they confirm that zh-yue:大元 should match Yuan dynasty (Q10531418), therefore partly moved back. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:Please make sure your Cantonese friend is understanding the meaning of dynasty (Q164950) and empire (Q48349). For example about UK is House of Windsor (Q81589)(dynasty) and British Empire (Q8680)(empire).
In Czech Wikipedia, the different ini Ming(明) is cs:Říše_Ming in Chinese zh:明朝, cs:Dynastie Ming in Chinese zh:明朝皇族.
In Chinese historiography, 朝(dynasty) is "legitimate" or "orthodox" regime. 朝(dynasty) is also meaning a state in Chinese. By now, zh:元朝 is taking about a empire and dynasty in same article.
PS:A article about 朝, 國, 代 for your reference.(历史上的国和代到底有什么区别?)(en:Dynasties in Chinese history)--Nostalgiacn (talk) 04:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
@Deryck Chan: I'm a bit confused by their resources, looking at the first sentence of zh-yue:大元: "大元,史學家叫元朝,係中國史上一朝,由蒙古族阿頭忽必烈響1271年立國,並響1279年滅咗南宋。" Any reasons to not consider this yuewiki article as Chinese dynasty (Q12857432)? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226: If we go by User:Matěj Suchánek and User:ChristianKl's explanation, I would think that puts zh-yue:大元 mostly into the Yuan Empire (Q7313) topic rather than the encyclopedic article (Q13433827) topic, because the article is mostly about the political state rather than the noble family that governs it. But I am clearly disagreeing with Liuxinyu970226's non-Wikimedian Cantonese speaker friend! Deryck Chan (talk) 23:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@Liuxinyu970226, Nostalgiacn, Vojtěch Dostál: We're asking the wrong question here. None of the 7+ languages I can read have made a minimal pair between the two concepts. I believe we need to ask speakers of the languages that do have minimal pairs between these two concepts to tell us what the difference is.

@Reem Al-Kashif: What's the difference between ar:سلالة يوان الحاكمة and ar:أسرة يوان?
@Matěj Suchánek: What's the difference between cs:Říše Jüan and cs:Dynastie Jüan?
@Millosh: What's the difference between sr:Јуанско царство and sr:Династија Јуан?
The former is the link to the latter. (Though, I see the potential difference in the names. The former refers to the state (empire), the later to the dynasty. But, there are not a lot of content to make the separate articles on both topics.) --Millosh (talk) 22:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
@Drbug: What's the difference between ru:Юань (империя) and ru:Династия Юань?
There's no apparent difference. ru:Династия Юань redirects to ru:Юань (империя). Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 17:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

--Deryck Chan (talk) 16:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Cross-posted to WD:Project chat. Also retry pinging User:Drbug Deryck Chan (talk) 16:36, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
@Deryck Chan: Okay I moved zh-yue:大元 to Yuan Empire (Q7313) again, and then, except for Czech, in the other 3 languages, we call them as "Wikidata redirect", i.e. remove "#" when editing or creating a redirect page, link that "broken redirect" to a Wikidata item and then restore "#" to let that redirect page work again. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226, Vojtěch Dostál:, Someone redirect Yuan Empire (Q7313) to Yuan dynasty (Q10531418) again. I don't know how to revert it, please help.--Nostalgiacn (talk) 05:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Undone, thanks for notifying. Vojtěch Dostál (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)