Wikidata:Events/IRC office hour 2018-09-25

People present (lines said)

• Lydia_WMDE (76)
• Auregann_WMDE (63)
• abian (22)
• Sannita (17)
• lisbeths (4)
• Lucas_WMDE (4)

Content

16:02:15 <Lydia_WMDE> #startmeeting Wikidata office hour
16:03:14 <Lydia_WMDE> As usual we'll start with some overview of what happened over the past months and then look at what's coming up
16:03:31 <Lydia_WMDE> and then discussions about topics you want to bring up
16:03:43 <Lydia_WMDE> So what happened over the past months? A lot!
16:03:55 <Lydia_WMDE> We've spend a lot of time on lexicographical data.
16:04:14 <Lydia_WMDE> Since the end of May you can actually store lexicographical data on Wikidata \o/
16:04:47 <Lucas_WMDE> 🎉
16:04:54 <Lydia_WMDE> I'm really happy with how much people already contributed and the way the whole thing is taking shape now.
16:05:07 <Lydia_WMDE> We now have over 240000 Lexemes already.
16:05:21 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Statistics has some interesting statistics about them if you want to know more.
16:05:46 <Lydia_WMDE> Since the release we've gotten a lot of really useful feedback and started fixing bugs and little annoyances
16:06:16 <Lydia_WMDE> There is still a ton of work to do but we're getting there and we've started a new chapter for Wikidata \o/
16:06:34 <Sannita> <3
16:07:02 <Lydia_WMDE> Another important area was data quality.
16:07:06 <Lucas_WMDE> (24000 not 240000 – that scared me for a moment :D )
16:07:16 <Lydia_WMDE> Haha sorry :D
16:07:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Didn't want to give Lucas_WMDE a heart attac :P
16:07:41 <Lydia_WMDE> So - data quality ;-)
16:08:13 <Lydia_WMDE> We have improved the constraints reports together with abian
16:09:04 <Lydia_WMDE> There are new ones to define the scope of a property (which entity type it can be used on) and one to make sure that two contemporary things are actually contemporary
16:09:39 <Lydia_WMDE> A part of the violations can now also be queried in the query service to make it easier to find violations you care about in a specific area.
16:09:42 <Lydia_WMDE> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2018-August/012281.html has more info.
16:10:29 <Lydia_WMDE> And we started a new campaign to improve ORES judgements that judge if edits are good or bad automatically to make review easier.
16:10:50 <Lydia_WMDE> We still need more: https://labels.wmflabs.org/ui/wikidatawiki/
16:11:55 <Lydia_WMDE> And the last thing we looked into in that area is making smarter suggestions for values for properties like sex or gender where we have a one-of constraint that tells us the values it should have.
16:12:22 <Lydia_WMDE> There will be a beta feature in the nearish future for that to allow you test it and give feedback.
16:12:28 <Sannita> great
16:13:05 <Lydia_WMDE> And last but not least Wikibase is becoming more and more important also outside Wikimedia. So we are spending quite some time on making it easier to set up Wikibase for other projects.
16:13:31 <Lydia_WMDE> This is important among other things because I hope it will take off some pressure from Wikidata and open up more data in formats we can easily interact with.
16:13:44 <Lydia_WMDE> And with that I hand over to Auregann_WMDE
16:14:08 <Auregann_WMDE> hello everyone :)
16:15:02 <Auregann_WMDE> sooo, following the deployment of Lexemes, we got a bunch of new tools created :) some people are pretty enthusiastic ;)
16:15:17 <Auregann_WMDE> I think Ordia was the first one https://tools.wmflabs.org/ordia/
16:15:27 <Auregann_WMDE> Then Lucas came up with plenty of useful tools
16:15:47 <Auregann_WMDE> Wikidata Lexeme Forms, helping filling Lexemes https://tools.wmflabs.org/lexeme-forms/
16:16:02 <Auregann_WMDE> Wikidata Lexeme graph builder, first attempt to visualize the data https://lucaswerkmeister.github.io/wikidata-lexeme-graph-builder/
16:16:50 <Auregann_WMDE> and a few more, including scripts to automatically fill Forms depending on your language, available here https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tools/Lexicographical_data
16:17:06 <Auregann_WMDE> of course in the meantime plenty of new tools have been created or reworked
16:17:22 <Auregann_WMDE> TopicMatcher http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=540
16:17:30 <Auregann_WMDE> Cradle https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/cradle/#/
16:17:38 <Auregann_WMDE> EditGroups has seen improvements https://tools.wmflabs.org/editgroups/
16:17:43 <Auregann_WMDE> Terminator has been reworked http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=550
16:18:03 <Auregann_WMDE> TABernacle has also been reworked, which made a lot of people happy :) https://tools.wmflabs.org/tabernacle/#/tab
16:18:20 <Auregann_WMDE> Wikidata Toolkit got a fresh new release https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata/2018-August/012278.html
16:18:47 <Auregann_WMDE> you can also have a look at ScienceStories, mixing Wikidata and IIIF http://www.sciencestories.io/Q6376201
16:19:19 <Auregann_WMDE> ShapeExpression Inference tool https://tools.wmflabs.org/wd-shex-infer/ (and if you don't know what shape expressions are, I know a few people who can explain ;) )
16:19:42 <Auregann_WMDE> Last but not least, OpenRefine has its 3.0 release, with cool new features! https://github.com/OpenRefine/OpenRefine/releases/tag/3.0
16:20:55 <Auregann_WMDE> Regarding events, as usual, many things happened, let's just mention Wikimania with a great Wikidata track, a nice community table where plenty of people came to chat or ask questions https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikimania_2018
16:22:07 <Auregann_WMDE> now here's a selection of some interesting papers or blog posts about Wikidata
16:22:26 <Auregann_WMDE> http://hangingtogether.org/?p=6775
16:22:32 <Auregann_WMDE> https://weltliteratur.net/russian-writers-and-their-professions/
16:22:39 <Auregann_WMDE> https://wikimediafoundation.org/2018/08/30/wikibase-illuminati-history/
16:22:45 <Auregann_WMDE> https://wikimediafoundation.org/2018/09/06/rhizome-wikibase/
16:22:51 <Auregann_WMDE> http://sulab.org/2018/08/wikidata-sparql-query-log-analysis/
16:22:57 <Auregann_WMDE> http://sulab.org/2018/08/wikidata-sparql-query-log-item-analysis/
16:23:03 <Auregann_WMDE> https://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/02/22/restricting-the-world/
16:23:08 <Auregann_WMDE> https://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/06/04/on-truths-and-lies/
16:23:14 <Auregann_WMDE> https://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/09/12/a-categorical-imperative/
16:24:28 <Auregann_WMDE> these last 3 are quite old, they've been written by Denny V. at the beginning of Wikidata, and they are giving a bit of context and perspective on why some choices regarding Wikidata have been made
16:25:11 <Auregann_WMDE> Alright, let's jump to a topic that I'm super excited about: Wikidata's 6th birthday!
16:25:43 <Auregann_WMDE> Almost 30 local groups are currently organizing Wikidata events around October 29th, that's crazy https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Sixth_Birthday
16:26:02 <Auregann_WMDE> definitely the biggest worldwide connection of Wikidata events we ever had
16:26:29 <Auregann_WMDE> You can also see the map here
16:26:56 <Auregann_WMDE> Of course, there is still time to add events to the list ;) Will update the event organizers regularly on the talk page
16:27:21 <Auregann_WMDE> I'm very happy about the engagement of all the people <3
16:28:09 <Auregann_WMDE> Wikicite conference is coming soon, and during Wikimania, they started working on a roadmap, feedback is welcome https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiCite/Roadmap
16:28:30 <Auregann_WMDE> things are moving around structured data for Commons as well
16:29:00 <Auregann_WMDE> there's a list of properties https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Properties_table
16:29:22 <Auregann_WMDE> feedback needed about license statements https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Statements
16:29:53 <Auregann_WMDE> and in general, discussions about how to bring Wikidata and Commons communities together https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Structured_data#Property_creation_on_Wikidata
16:30:41 <Auregann_WMDE> And now Lydia_WMDE, what's coming in the next months? \o/
16:30:45 <Lydia_WMDE> :D
16:30:51 <Lydia_WMDE> Lots of good things are coming!
16:31:05 <Lydia_WMDE> Most importantly Senses will be coming on October 18th \o/
16:31:17 <Lydia_WMDE> That means we can record the different meanings of words.
16:31:30 <Lydia_WMDE> And with that we will be able to have translations between languages and more.
16:32:08 <Lydia_WMDE> This is one of the major missing pieces of lexicographical data support so I expect this to give another boost to that part of Wikidata.
16:32:30 <Lydia_WMDE> And it'll also be one of the pieces that makes the data useful for re-users.
16:33:09 <Lydia_WMDE> And of course we'll continue to improve bigger and smaller things around lexicographical data so it becomes more usable and understandable.
16:33:37 <Lydia_WMDE> We'll also work on making it possible to query all constraint violations instead of just a subset as it is now.
16:34:12 <Lydia_WMDE> And last but not least we will bring the termbox (the thing that holds labels, descriptions and aliases in different languages) to the mobile site.
16:34:26 <Lydia_WMDE> So mobile users have access to all of the content of an item as well.
16:35:24 <Lydia_WMDE> Alright. That's the things that happened and are coming up. Obviously it's only a summary but I hope still useful and helpful.
16:35:36 <Lydia_WMDE> Does anyone have questions about any of those? Or comments? Feedback?
16:35:48 * Sannita raises a hand
16:36:06 <Lydia_WMDE> Ask away :)
16:36:09 <Sannita> first of all, thank you for doing the Lexicographical data part about Senses on my nameday -- I usually don't celebrate it, this year I will :D
16:36:19 <Lydia_WMDE> Haha great!
16:36:36 <Sannita> I don't have any question about today's themes, but I have one on an open ticket
16:36:38 <Lydia_WMDE> We already released the first version almost on the birthday of another contributor ;-)
16:36:50 <Sannita> lol
16:36:51 <Lydia_WMDE> We are getting our timing right it seems... :P
16:37:03 <Lydia_WMDE> Which ticket is it?
16:37:09 <Sannita> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T57755
16:37:23 <Sannita> the one about having time values more precise than a day
16:37:30 <Lydia_WMDE> Ah yes.
16:38:19 <Sannita> is it possible to work it out? is it a problem of lacking manpower?
16:38:35 <Sannita> *(wo)manpower
16:38:40 <Lydia_WMDE> It is blocked on two things from my side:
16:38:49 <Lydia_WMDE> 1) a clear plan for how it should be done
16:38:53 <Lydia_WMDE> 2) (wo)man power
16:39:06 <Lydia_WMDE> Once 1 is fixed I can make 2 happen more easily.
16:39:23 <Lydia_WMDE> So if you or someone else would like to help with a spec for 1 that'd be <3
16:39:25 <Sannita> that was my fear :) you think an RFC would work for 1)
16:39:30 <Sannita> ?
16:39:38 <Lydia_WMDE> Possibly, yeah.
16:39:57 <Sannita> ok, I'll write that down, hopefully I'll do it asap
16:40:07 <Sannita> thanks :)
16:40:50 <Lydia_WMDE> Great :)
16:40:55 * abian raises three hands :)
16:41:04 <Lydia_WMDE> abian: go for it!
16:41:14 <abian> Okay :)
16:41:17 * Lydia_WMDE wonders where abian got a third hand Oo
16:41:27 * Lucas_WMDE raises three eyebrows
16:41:37 <abian> :D
16:41:55 <Sannita> I think it's better to move on to questions...
16:42:00 <abian> Lexicographical data: is the RDF model better defined now?
16:42:15 <Lydia_WMDE> Yes - tpt is a hero and did most of the work
16:42:33 <Lydia_WMDE> Let me find a link.
16:42:33 <abian> Great!
16:43:08 <Auregann_WMDE> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikibaseLexeme/RDF_mapping
16:43:59 <Lydia_WMDE> More questions?
16:44:30 <abian> Yeah, a comment that I left on a task... https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200846#4487680
16:44:45 <abian> I noticed that too many entities aren't indexed by web search engines
16:45:00 <abian> What should we do with that?
16:45:33 <Lydia_WMDE> I think a first step would be figuring out why that is the case.
16:46:09 <abian> Not sure if we can by ourselves :/
16:46:18 <abian> But one reason can be the lack of incoming links
16:46:23 <Lydia_WMDE> Yeah. We'd have to ask some friends in high places ;-)
16:46:28 <abian> :)
16:46:52 <Lydia_WMDE> I'll put it on my todo list to poke people about it and hopefully get some intel.
16:47:08 <abian> Cool
16:48:20 <abian> And last thing for now... I find property proposals too hard to manage, especially for newcomers
16:49:02 <abian> I had a look on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Form_extensions but don't know if an extension of this kind is the best solution
16:49:26 <Lydia_WMDE> Oh yeah. I've heard complaints about that too.
16:49:41 <Lydia_WMDE> But I think we have some low hanging fruits even without a new extension.
16:49:56 <Lydia_WMDE> A lot of people were put off or confused by jargon they didn't understand.
16:50:03 <Auregann_WMDE> yeah, I heard complains about the vocabulary that is used, the phrasing
16:50:12 <Auregann_WMDE> maybe we could start with this
16:50:16 <Lydia_WMDE> So I think if someone took the time to improve the wording and help texts that would already improve things a lot.
16:51:08 <abian> I was more thinking on "the great solution" instead of a perhaps temporary improvement
16:51:18 <Lydia_WMDE> *nod*
16:51:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Forms is the closest we have i fear
16:51:38 <Lydia_WMDE> But really that'll also not help if the text stays the same
16:53:33 <Lydia_WMDE> Do we have someone who'd be willing to put work into improving the text as a start?
16:53:49 <Lydia_WMDE> We might be able to get help from our UX team.
16:55:07 <Lydia_WMDE> If someone wants to take that up poke Auregann_WMDE and she can get you in contact.
16:55:16 <abian> I sadly shouldn't commit to anything more right now :/
16:55:26 <Lydia_WMDE> Understood :)
16:55:37 <Auregann_WMDE> that could also be a great task to revive https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Documentation or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Welcome :)
16:55:58 <Auregann_WMDE> Anything more to add or ask? :)
16:55:59 <lisbeths> Excuse me.
16:56:23 <lisbeths> I hate to bother you but I have a question about this channel.
16:57:35 <lisbeths> I am wondering if there is a relation between the wikimedia foundation and the pdpc from freenode.
16:58:24 <Lydia_WMDE> lisbeths: I am not sure but it's not something we can answer in this office hour. Maybe someone else can help you when we're finished in a few minutes.
16:58:40 <Lydia_WMDE> Everyone else: Any remaining questions or should we wrap it up for today?
16:59:31 <abian> Okay, last question, promised :)
17:00:21 <abian> What should we do so that Wikipedians are more convinced to use Wikidata?
17:00:26 <abian> (Quick thought)
17:00:40 <Auregann_WMDE> that's a big one :D
17:01:09 <abian> Sorry :)
17:01:32 <Auregann_WMDE> but I would say, in general, trying to understand their concerns, and address them
17:01:33 <Sannita> using lots of LARPs would work, IMHO
17:01:49 <Sannita> *LART
17:01:55 <Auregann_WMDE> we've been improving the watchlist to make the Wikidata information more relevant
17:02:11 <Auregann_WMDE> we've been highlighting the tools that allow watching what's happening on Wikidata from Wikipedia
17:02:25 <Auregann_WMDE> https://blog.wikimedia.de/2018/06/01/tools-for-wikipedians-keeping-track-of-whats-going-on-on-wikidata-from-wikipedia-2/
17:02:47 <Auregann_WMDE> the community is constantly working on improving the content and its reliability :)
17:03:18 <Auregann_WMDE> some Wikidata editors are also involved in their language Wikipedia community to change things slowly and quietly
17:03:49 <Auregann_WMDE> and things are already going pretty well in "small" communities, where they embrace more Wikidata, like on Basque or Catalan WP
17:04:03 <Auregann_WMDE> if we pursue these efforts, the rest will come with time, I hope :)
17:04:33 <Auregann_WMDE> I would also add that trying to enforce Wikidata or Wikidata-oriented decisions doesn't really work
17:04:54 <Auregann_WMDE> better trying to show, on small scale (like, a specific wikiproject) that wikipedians can work with Wikidata
17:05:16 <Auregann_WMDE> and that the result can be awesome and very time-saving for Wikipedians
17:05:33 <Auregann_WMDE> but again, it's easier to do that among smaller communities
17:06:14 <lisbeths> Leaving wikidata open to SQL read requests would help out programmers. ALso when I hit random wikidata pages it is not always clear where the data comes from or how to interpret it. A link back to the pages the data originates from may help.
17:08:06 <Lydia_WMDE> Wikidata's data is more complex than what can easily be stored in SQL as non-blobs. So that'll not happen unfortunately. That's what we have the query service for.
17:08:14 <abian> It was a big question but I'm sure your answer is a good and complete one, Auregann_WMDE, thanks :)
17:08:29 <Auregann_WMDE> thank you :)
17:08:48 <abian> Now I shut up :P
17:08:58 <Auregann_WMDE> Alright folks, thanks for following this IRC meeting!
17:09:18 * Lucas_WMDE waves again
17:09:19 <Auregann_WMDE> We're reachable on the usual channels if you want to discuss more or report bugs :p
17:10:03 <Auregann_WMDE> Thanks all for your involvement and enthusiasm around Wikidata, and see you soon IRL or online o/
17:10:17 <Lydia_WMDE> o/
17:10:26 <Lydia_WMDE> #endmeeting