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Properties for deletion
This is the page for requesting the deletion of a property (for items, with IDs beginning with "Q", please use requests for deletions). To nominate a property for deletion, complete the following steps:
  • Place the {{Property for deletion}} template on the property talk page.
  • Open the discussion on this page under the "Requests" section below.
  • Notify the user who originally proposed the property and the property creator for it on their respective talk pages.
  • Validate the property isn't being used in other projects (using {{ExternalUse}}) and if it is, leave a message in Village pump of the project.

Requests may be closed after 7 days, but may be extended if consensus is not reached. If an extended discussion becomes stale and has been left unclosed, a request for closure can be made at the administrators' noticeboard. If the request is uncontroversial, for example "accidentally created with wrong datatype", please use the faster-moving requests for deletions instead.

Properties for deletion may be used:

  1. To merge a property to another, or request to deprecate a property in favor of another.
  2. To change the data type of a property currently being used.
  3. Rarely, to delete a property with no replacement (e.g. it refers to an external website that is closed and/or not suitable for Wikidata).

Properties for deletion should not be used:

  1. To change the scope or purpose of a property; these should be discussed at the talk page of the property, project chat, or requests for comment.
  2. To request of undeletion of a property. To challenge a recently closed properties for deletion, you may use administrators' noticeboard; otherwise, you may repropose the property.

Add a new request


On this page, old requests are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at Properties/1.



Please add a new request at the bottom of this section, using {{subst:Rfd|1=PAGENAME|2=REASON FOR DELETION}}.


analog or derivative of (P5000): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

Property represents analog (Q50824047) which is ambiguous and inaccurate and so it's incorrect from a chemistry perspective. It mixes different concepts of functional analog, structural analog, derivative and molecular similarity and some others; concepts that are neither synonymous nor similar, concepts that shouldn't be equated with each other. Problem of chemical classification is one of the most important and most challenging in WD's chemistry scope, but Wikiproject Chemistry hasn't been notified about this proposal and I found this property by accident. Fortunately, there is only one use of this property.

This property should be deleted as it's incorrect and importing data from the indicated sources can lead to addition of a huge collection of chaotic and inaccurate data. Discussion about chemical classification should be continued in Wikiproject Chemistry and such bypass solutions should not be created.

Jasper Deng
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Antony Williams (EPA)
Devon Fyson
Samuel Clark
Tris T7
  Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry, pinging participants of the property proposal discussion: @Andrew Su, YULdigitalpreservation, Okkn, ديفيد_عادل_وهبة_خليل_2, Andrawaag, Gstupp:. —Wostr (talk) 13:21, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

  •   Keep I see it is useful and has no problem.The description can be improved David (talk) 14:03, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
    • Could you explain how this property is useful? Wostr (talk) 14:42, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
    • I have to ping you, David, as I would like to know the answer or some argument for keeping this property. Especially in the light of my comment of September 24 (below, the long one beginning with I'm not sure), in which I pointed out major problems with the sources that were to be used to populate this property. Wostr (talk) 20:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
  • I understand your concern. Do you have any plans to create more specific properties replacing this property? Or should we force this property to be used with a qualifier of object has role (P3831) (functional analog (Q25205085), structural analog (Q485014), Substrate analog (Q7632163), or Transition state analog (Q17087414))? Actually, the term "analog" is used ambiguously in molecular biology and in medicine, such as nucleic acid analogue (Q15057699) and Insulin analog (Q742283). Also, I'd like to hear what is the chemically correct relationships between 2-chlorodiazepam (Q15408412) and diazepam (Q210402), or between fexofenadine hydrochloride (Q27255526) and fexofenadine (Q415122). Regards, --Okkn (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure that properties are needed here at all. We had in Wikiproject Chemistry some initial discussions about chemical classification (e.g. here), but these discussions are not finished, as we in WP Chemistry have a lot to do before this (e.g. determining what we already have in WD and cleaning up after mass bot imports). From my POV the basic chemical classification should be based on classes of chemical compounds using instance of/subclass of (e.g. diazepam has a benzodiazepine, chloroaromatic classes; these classes are subclasses of more general classes etc.; this way diazepam and 2-chlorodiazepam are a member of the same classes). But this is my POV that has not been accepted (as any other) to be used in WD; and that's not the only option that can be present in WD. With the analogs, derivatives and so on there are IMHO too many problems: one can say that 2-chlorodiazepam is an analogue of diazepam, but there are really no clear and objective boundaries – methanol is an analog of methane? one can say that; diazepam is a structural analog of methane? some may argue that this is also true, really, I had that kind of discussions in, because we have 'derivatives' and 'similar compounds' parameteres in infoboxes...
      The problem here is also that we would have several thousands of statements imported to WD and that's it. Many users like to import data to WD, but no one likes to curate that data, no one is checking whether imported data is correct or not. And in this case it would certainly be incorrect: just look what is the purpose of 'analogs & derivatives' in MeSH: It is used when the specific chemical heading is not available and no appropriate group heading exists i.e. it is used where there is no chemical class to be used for classification, so this is a kind of a substitute property, a replacement for something that is missing right now. ChEBI 'functional parent' have more sense (A has_functional_parent B if and only if given any a, a instantiates A , has molecular graph ag and a obo: has_part some functional group fg, then there is some b such that b instantiates B, has molecular graph bg and has functional group fg’ such that bg is the result of a graph transformation process on ag resulting in the conversion of fg into fg'.), but I don't think that such relationships are needed in WD, at least not right now.
      My point is that: classification should be thoroughly discussed first and there should not be mass imports before that, because there are always people who wants to import something (no matter if this is correct or not), but there are no volunteers for cleaning this up. Wostr (talk) 14:06, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
  • I understand that a property like this makes interesting browsing, but I think it can be done differently. I agree with the point that analog and derivative are not so well defined, but my worries stems particularly from the fact that it is unbound and will lead to many links between chemical structures. I'm slightly in favor of removing. --Egon Willighagen (talk) 16:45, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
  •   Delete or at least rename based on a more specific relation. We already discussed the problem in WikiProject Chemistry and only relations based on a clear definition have to be used. Snipre (talk) 23:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
  •   Delete We do need better chemical relationship properties, but they need to be extremely clearly defined. --99of9 (talk) 01:06, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Given that this has only 3 uses currently, I think it's save to throw out the existing usages and rename the property into a more specific one (and not let the nice P5000 go to waste). I propose to go for "structural analog" here. ChristianKl❫ 10:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)


demonym (P1549): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

I think this property could be replaced with one that links to senses (e.g. sense 1 of Kenyan (L35249)); this would be especially useful for words with lots of conjugations. I have not created a new property proposal because it would be more appropriate to have the discussion in one place.

I've already created 161 English noun lexemes which would be able to replace current uses; it would also be necessary to create equivalent items for adjectives, as well as to create the relevant senses for the noun and adjective lexemes (I've only added a sense to L35249 so far). —Jc86035 (talk) 10:33, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Notified 94 contributors to the property and its talk page: User:Nikki User:Abián User:Jura1 User:VIGNERON User:Tubezlob User:Jheald User:Lockal User:Infovarius User:Putnik User:Laddo User:Kalogeropoulos User:Innocent bystander User:Event User:Jakec User:Vinhtantran User:MaGa User:Labant User:K175 User:Autom User:Robin van der Vliet User:Matěj Suchánek User:Janezdrilc User:Ctschiebout User:Kevin Scannell User:Maria zaos User:Horcrux User:Soued031 User:Metsavend User:Obaid Raza User:İncelemeelemani User:Pinky sl User:Andreasmperu User:Рөстәм Нурыев User:Pmt User:Gustavo Rubén User:Oriciu User:Mr. Ibrahem User:زكريا User:ToJack User:Renessaince User:Arnaugir User:MisterSynergy User:AmaryllisGardener User:Beta16 User:Mahir256 User:Спасимир User:Asierog User:Avatar6 User:Wylve User:Şêr Jc86035 (talk) 10:39, 4 November 2018 (UTC) User:Krupolskiy Anonim User:YMS User:ಶಿವಕುಮಾರ್ ನಾಯಕ್ User:Hibm98 User:GAllegre User:Epìdosis User:Jklamo User:David1010 User:SR5 User:Máté User:Ślimaczek User:HakanIST User:FocalPoint User:Allen4names User:Mbch331 User:Zygimantus User:Fnielsen User:Peppepz User:Geraki User:Supaplex User:Thierry Caro User:NMaia User:Loischantada User:ANDROBETA User:Marklar2007 User:Kikos User:Raid5 User:Doostdar User:Palapa User:Octahedron80 User:Милан Јелисавчић User:Frokor User:Rippitippi User:Conny User:Qllach User:Miguillen User:יונה בנדלאק User:Liuxinyu970226 User:桂鷺淵 User:Bjankuloski06 User:Thomas11 User:Ayack User:Чаховіч Уладзіслаў User:Александр Сигачёв Jc86035 (talk) 10:41, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I would like to note that the property is used as label for country of citizenship (P27) at huwiki. If the property is deleted, the current data needs to be imported into the newly accepted structure, and huwiki needs to be notified to create a workaround to the new structure if possible. Ideally, the new structure should make it possible. – Máté (talk) 12:10, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

This is also the case for WD powered templates at svwiki, frwiki and probably many more. /Autom (talk) 13:13, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
@Máté, Autom: Where is it used on huwiki/svwiki/frwiki? Those are not listed in the box on the talk page, perhaps the script which looks for property usage can be improved. @Jc86035: Please notify the projects using this property too. - Nikki (talk) 14:52, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
@Nikki: hu:Sablon:Személy infobox of the top of my head. – Máté (talk) 14:58, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
@Nikki: On svwp, it is used by the module Wikidata2, which in invoked by a lot of templates (like Faktamall biografi WD in biografies). I know frwiki had a similar system a year ago (it's possible it has change since then). /Autom (talk) 18:25, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
@Autom: Do you have any specific place where this spcific property is used on svwiki? I see many potential problems with this property in the Swedish language, so at least I have never tried to use or even edit it. Sextvå.tvånoll.ettsjunoll.sjufyra (talk) 17:03, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
@Sextvå.tvånoll.ettsjunoll.sjufyra: It is used to display nationality in Faktamall biografi WD (via Wikidata2). In the article Bill Gates, the template does not return "USA" but "Amerikan", which is the value of demonym (P1549) [common gender (Q1305037), singular (Q110786)] of United States of America (Q30) (the country of citizenship (P27) of Bill Gates (Q5284)). /Autom (talk) 14:11, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete but probably wait some weeks/months until Lexemes are more stable. Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 12:17, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
  • I agree that we should eventually replace the existing property with lexemes, but we shouldn't delete this until people are able to switch to using lexemes. We still need to decide how we want to link things together. - Nikki (talk) 14:52, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
  •   Delete The property demonym of (P6271) has been created. This one can now be deleted (first declare obsolete, move content, then delete).--Micru (talk) 17:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
  •   Comment If this property is being used in an infobox or by a Lua module, it will need to be retained and to go on having its values added to and extended, at least and until such time as inverse property values become obtainable via Lua - as at present they are not. Jheald (talk) 18:09, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
  •   On hold. I agree with Jheald that we need a place -> demonym property to keep infoboxes working. We should keep this property until we have a new Item -> Lexeme "demonym" property, migrate all existing uses and infoboxes, then delete P1549. Deryck Chan (talk) 15:52, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete Very barely used, and replacement is even available for these not more than 100 usages. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:44, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   On hold. Until infoboxes (as happens in cawiki) can be transformed after have access via LUA module. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 12:47, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment. As noted, 1) there is no wikibase client for lexemes, 2) there is no Lua function available for backlinks or API queries, pending of phab:T185313 that it seems silently declined for a year now. There is not any path from a wiki page like w:fr:Paris to reach parisien (L26359). If these blockers are solved, there are still some concerns. How to deal with parisien (L26359) or parisienne (L25620)? How to obtain the demonym for a given language and a lexical category? At the end, it will be one more, or several, arbitrary access and it is expensive in Lua time usage that has limitations in infoboxes powered by Wikidata. --Vriullop (talk) 07:52, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Keep Keep this property because with this property is very easy to add some data. --Manu1400 (talk) 21:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)


GINCO ID (P3905): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

This property is covered by Thésaurus de la désignation des objets mobiliers ID (P4979) and Thésaurus de la désignation des œuvres architecturales et des espaces aménagés ID (P4980) and I think it is better to have those seperate. —Lymantria (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

@Zolo, Shonagon, VIGNERON, Pigsonthewing, Gzen92, ChristianKl: Pinging those involved in the discussion on the property proposal of GINCO ID (P3905). Lymantria (talk) 12:06, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

  • @Lymantria: could we have some more in-depth explanations? I think it's better to have one property for one database on one website. Just because this database has subparts means we need to have differents property (see. IMDb ID (P345) for an other example of a database with subparts). Plus, if we would use Thésaurus de la désignation des objets mobiliers ID (P4979) and Thésaurus de la désignation des œuvres architecturales et des espaces aménagés ID (P4980), then some fixing seems to be needed (I fixed the formatter URL (P1630) already). Also @Ayack: who did the proposal for P4979 and P4980 (who were accepted with only 2 votes each). Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:49, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
    • The main reason I think that it is better to have two seperate properties, is that for instance balcony (Q170552) has an entry in both and now yields a constraint violation for GINCO ID (P3905). Lymantria (talk) 13:11, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
      • Oh, good point, thanks Lymantria. Is there a lot of case like that? by design, there should be few so they could easily be dealt with exceptions on the constraint (like I did Special:Diff/809146141), but if there is a lot (more than 10% of the total?) then indeed we should maybe have separate properties. @Ayack: signaled me that there is indeed a problem with the identifiers for P4979 and P4980 (what I thought was a fix caused some problems…), does someone has more informations (or even better specifications) on how this database(s) works? Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 15:06, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
        • I have not really investigated if there are many of those cases, but I assume less than 10%. Still, the property now combines two thesauruses, which I think is not wise. Lymantria (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
  •   Comment based on the explanations given, I'd delete either the above or the two other ones. --- Jura 06:14, 20 December 2018 (UTC)


The Guardian article ID (P6085): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

Per ChristianKl and Dominic's comments at Wikidata:Property proposal/New York Times short URL, it might be better to either have a single property for unique short URLs, or to not have any special properties for short URLs at all. The property has, regardless, not seen any adoption aside from the three example values that I used in the property proposal form, so deleting it would not currently result in any significant loss of data. —Jc86035 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Notifying the other property proposal participants: Germartin1, Visite fortuitement prolongée, ArthurPSmith, MartinPoulter, eru, Pigsonthewing, Thierry Caro. Jc86035 (talk) 13:22, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

No strong feelings on this. ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:18, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
(Note: I created both property proposals. I forgot to mention this.) Jc86035 (talk) 17:22, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

*weak keep: all the Guardian articles fulfil a need. Probably thousands (?) of them have an online ID. So the property could be useful. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 21:51, 5 July 2019 (UTC).

  • @Nomen ad hoc: On the other hand, it would be sort of pointless to do this for all original newspaper articles (assuming that those get imported at some point in the future), since we would then have thousands of properties just for newspapers instead of using full work available at (P953), and most of those article items (excluding those for AP/AFP/Reuters articles) would only use at most one identifier property. Jc86035 (talk) 07:29, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete URL are good enough to reference articles. Having the property means that we get plenty of other requests for properties for the articles of other newspapers that create additional work for property creation that's better spend dealing with already existing proposals. ChristianKl❫ 10:10, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete Convinced by Jc & Christian. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 09:26, 9 August 2019 (UTC).


I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 22:34, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Initial discussionEdit

Second discussion?Edit

incorrect closuresEdit

Repeating previous comment:

  • Given that it's a controversial property, I don't think a participating administrator should be closing this. Number of uses is irrelevant to reason for which this was listed. --- Jura 22:21, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

As Liux.. isn't an admin, there isn't much they can do about it either. --- Jura 22:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

3rd discussionEdit

  Keep Unless if Jura1 has a fresh new reason that this property should be deleted, I doubt if there's need to restart any discussions here. -- 07:49, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Liuxinyu970226, this is about the closure(s), I don't understand why you start a 2nd or a 3rd discussion. --- Jura 10:53, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Jura1: When you repeat your reason of deletion, you are just re-starting it, it's true for every humans that edit wikis, anyone, anywhere and anyhow, please do not make so-called "connections" between and me, this IP range has nothing to 5W1H-do and be with me, and just a violation of WD:AGF. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sorry, I thought it was you logged out. Anyways, no it's not another deletion discussion as you and the ip seem to think. It's a meta question for administrators. Would you know if the IP is one? --- Jura 15:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
@Jneubert, Renamerr, Maqivi, Liridon, Epìdosis:@Renessaince, Urban 3th, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Davidpar, Pintoch:@Romaine: Do you all still think that this property should be kept? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:06, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Keep, for the reasons given above. Jneubert (talk) 07:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Keep--Liridon (talk) 11:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

What on Earth is going on here? There has clearly been an improper closure of the original discussion, by an admin making a "super vote", rather than assessing consensus in the discussion. Then we have new discussions, rather than the original discussion being reopened; and a bunch of pings in which I, who called for "delete" in the original discussion, was not included, but those calling "keep", an others who did not participate, were. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm also wondering that why in our world does Jura1 want this property to be deleted, even they know that there are too many keep concerns, what's their "solutions"? I can't believe that any person that does never do things like Kyoto Animation arson attack (Q65640303) can frequently PFD a property for more than 3 times, just because they want that "to be deleted" even won't happen. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:34, 25 July 2019 (UTC)


Diffusion ENS ID (P5660): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

The related site has been closed and the content was moved to Savoirs ENS ID (P5664) (see for instance, in the case of Michel Serres (Q364456), [1] and [2]). —Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:46, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Ash Crow
Thierry Caro
Nomen ad hoc
Marianne Casamance
Le Passant
  Notified participants of WikiProject France. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 21:27, 4 June 2019 (UTC).

Daniel Mietchen DarTar Ppgardne Michael Cochez Alexander Doria Maximilianklein Renepick Lambert Heller Beat Estermann Cornelia Flavia Veja Tobias1984 Silvio Peroni Alastair Dunning Aubrey Snipre Andrew Su Karima Rafes Alen Vodopijevec Henry Rzepa Scott Edmunds Emw Matthiassamwald Missvain Vladimir Alexiev Petermr WiseWoman Jodi.a.schneider NavinoEvans Jan van Oort Andy Mabbett Konrad Foerstner Egon Willighagen Ben Moore Z. Ainali HLHJ Ale Abdo a.k.a. Solstag jibe-b GuZ-MPG Kristina Hettne Lilaroja Runner1928 Almondega lv_ra Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) Rudy Patard ArthurPSmith Diana de la Iglesia Netha Pintoch OdileB YULdigitalpreservation Lozana Rossenova Jonathan Brier a.k.a. wolfgang8741 Jneubert econterms T0mpr1c3 Vladimir Alexiev Ivanhercaz Trilotat Benjamenta Nomen ad hoc Tris T7 TT meSimon Cobb Alessandro Marchetti sky Juliansteinb Maria zaos Josephguillaume Cavernia

  Notified participants of WikiProject Wikidata for research. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 06:58, 15 June 2019 (UTC).

  •   DeletePintoch (talk) 20:20, 16 August 2019 (UTC)


lithography (P2157): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

This property seems over-specialized. I had been using statements like Exynos 9820 (Q28859206) fabrication method (P2079) 8nm (Q25991737) and they seem adequate. The statements would be easy to convert. @MisterSanderson, Ruud Koot, Tobias1984: Ghouston (talk) 10:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC) —Ghouston (talk) 10:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Aside from the point that there are numerous manufacturing techniques that apply to more things than semiconductors, and we don't really want properties for them all, it seems that these semiconductor techniques can be described more accurately. E.g., according to [3] there are processes like "8nm FinFET LPP (Low Power Plus)" and "7nm EUV (Extreme Ultra Violet)". The source for the Exynos 9820 says it uses 8nm FinFET LPP. If it was desired to group the semiconductor lithography processes together, that can be done by creating a subclass of manufacturing process (Q1408288). (that would probably be photolithography (Q622938), judging by its enwiki article). Ghouston (talk) 00:26, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Ruud Koot
Daniel Mietchen
Tinker Bell
Jasc PL
Tris T7
Peb Aryan
  Notified participants of WikiProject Informatics

  • I would vote   Delete, but not without discussing its usage in templates. Over-simplifying Wikidata by removing properties in favour of qualifiers is not the best solution for those uses. Let discuss at the Spanish Wikipedia, and depending the consensus, this property should be deleted or kept. --Amitie 10g (talk) 23:32, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Template use is a good question, I can see a link to ca:Plantilla:Infotaula equipament informàtic on the talk page, and it's visible on ca:Intel 8085, for example. My suggested alternative would be using a different property, not a qualifier, but it would have a wider range of possible values: any manufacturing process. Ghouston (talk) 07:56, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


JORFSearch person ID (P4828): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

Per Topic:V2ux3hpbf5ofitqw: isn't a real ID. No further need of a such property. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC). —Nomen ad hoc (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Ash Crow
Thierry Caro
Nomen ad hoc
Marianne Casamance
Le Passant
  Notified participants of WikiProject France. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC).

  Delete per request. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 21:46, 5 July 2019 (UTC).
  DeletePintoch (talk) 08:33, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
  Delete --Deansfa (talk) 15:15, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
  Delete Jean-Fred (talk) 16:50, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
  Delete --DannyS712 (talk) 14:56, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

So could any admin please delete this? Nomen ad hoc (talk) 12:35, 10 August 2019 (UTC).

It's still used on many items, the existing claims must be removed first. -Ash Crow (talk) 09:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
OK; I thought it didn't matter. I've opened a bot request. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 10:58, 14 August 2019 (UTC).

Right now the item is not used anymore, so the deletion can be performed? 06:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


doctoral student (P185): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

Generally too many. Inverse should be sufficient --- Jura 17:59, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Ping Danrok, Zolo. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 07:26, 14 July 2019 (UTC).

Also @Dim Grits, Hannolans, İncelemeelemani, Emptyfear, AttoRenato:@Lupin~frwiki, Mormegil, Rooiratel, Dumbassman: Those who recently edited this property. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:47, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
Also @Cgolds: who opened a related discussion on French Bistro, and who just suggested only keeping student (P802). Nomen ad hoc (talk) 06:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC).
  •   Keep. Infoboxes about professors often include a short list of prominent doctoral students. The inverse may be sufficient to generate a list of all students who have their own Wikidata items, but this property allows further curation of who are the most important students using ranks. @Lupin~frwiki: "PhD candidate" and "doctoral student" have different boundaries (other kinds of doctorate are not included) and different universities use different names, so I wouldn't advise rescoping the property.
    • Ok, I understand. So you would use this property for medicine doctorate for instance, I understand. Then "doctoral candidate" could then be much more convenient than "doctoral student". Do you agree? --Lupin~frwiki (talk) 14:22, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
      • Probably not physician (Q39631), but likely to include other kinds of doctorates conferred after academic study: Doctor of Education (Q837184), Doctor of Engineering (Q17119067), Doctor of Laws (Q959320) and the University of Oxford which call their doctors of philosophy "DPhil" rather than "PhD". Deryck Chan (talk) 15:32, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
        • If I formulate it differently, you argue that doctoral "student" would be more convenient to use for medicine doctor candidate than doctoral candidate which should be used for research doctor candidate. I understand that either the difference between both people is notable and we should classify medicine doctors as students with field medicine or it is not and we should consider them as candidates.Lupin~frwiki (talk) 11:05, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

@Dim Grits: I think doctoral student (P185), doctoral advisor (P184) serve a different purpose from student (P802), student of (P1066). These two SPARQL queries [4][5] show editors have found uses in over 1000 biographical items where distinguishing between doctoral student-teacher relationships and other student-teacher relationships has been helpful. Deryck Chan (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Comment A big problem imho that also concerns student (P802) has been to establish an inverse property constraint. The property would be totally valid as a way to store the main students or Phd candidates of a teacher. Currently most of the student of (P1066)/doctoral advisor (P184) relationships that I have filled during the past years have been also reversed (either by bot or by well-meaning users attempting to "correct" an apparent error) making the student (P802)/doctoral student (P185) information meaningless. I would agree to keep this property along with student (P802) if the constraint is entirely lifted. Alexander Doria (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @Alexander Doria: I tend to agree that student of (P1066) and student (P802) should be inverse properties. Importance can be marked using rank, rather than removing unimportant (but truthful) entries. Deryck Chan (talk) 15:32, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
      • Agree too. Only mentioning "notable" students is IMHO too arbitrary... especially if "notability" isn't properly defined. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 15:38, 19 July 2019 (UTC).
      • Agree tooLupin~frwiki (talk) 11:05, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Consistency can be assured but some work is needed. We can get the same information without this property. Use this kind of property to distinguish some items of the set does not seem a good idea since the choice of each item can be discussed and different in every country, field, etc. This selection should be let to each wikipedia page imho. --Lupin~frwiki (talk) 14:22, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:22, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete A Wikipedia that only wants notable students via reverse lookup can simply only display students for which they have an article. ChristianKl❫ 10:07, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  •   Keep People that consider it is redundant with doctoral advisor (P184), may be doesn't know that is impossible to get information via backlinks from LUA module and, of course, from infoboxes and any kind of wiki templates. SPARQL is a partial solutions for the real uses of WD, nowadays. If I'm wrong and somebody has a solutions to make some kind of haswbstatement from wiki templates or LUA Modules, please just tell me. Thanks. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:16, 12 August 2019 (UTC)


writing language (P6886): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

This property duplicates languages spoken, written or signed (P1412). —EncycloPetey (talk) 14:19, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Keep The property is well-delimited (only the language used in written work) and there's a clear rational for its inception (languages spoken, written or signed (P1412) is not appropriate for Wikisource). Alexander Doria (talk) 18:09, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    It is not well-delimited. What limits it? If an author publishes an edition of a work by another author, with added commentary in a different language, then is the language of the original work considered or just the language of the commentary? This is a very real situation, as editors of Classical works often publish edited editions of Classical works in the original language, along with a translation and notes. So, if an author publishes an Ancient Greek edition of Menander, with an English translation, and footnotes in French, German, Greek, and English, then which language(s) has the author written in?
    Why is "languages spoken, written, or signed" not appropriate for Wikisource? Don't speeches and orations count towards "language written"? Wikisource hosts many transcribed speeches and lectures. Wikisource also hosts audio recordings of works, which are not written. And do works recorded secondhand by another individual count as written by the original author or speaker, or is this a language written by the secondhand writer only? This matters for authors like Jesus and Socrates, who have no known works written by the authors themselves. Do we count personal correspondence to family and colleagues (which can be hosted on Wikisource), or only published works, and what if the correspondence is later published? And once we see how broad "writing language" is in this light, then how is it any different from "languages spoken, written, or signed"?
    Clearly this is a property of individual works written by the author. Each work has a language (or languages) it which it was written, and some works (such as musical works) are written in no language at all. If we are to use this property, it should be justified by a work written in that language, which shows that it is a property of the work written, and not the author who wrote it. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:28, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:21, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Viswaprabha (talk)
Maximilianklein (talk)
Jane023 (talk) 08:21, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Alexander Doria (talk)
Ruud 23:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Jayanta Nath
Yann (talk)
John Vandenberg (talk) 09:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Danmichaelo (talk) 19:30, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Ravi (talk)
Mvolz (talk) 08:21, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Hsarrazin (talk) 07:56, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
PKM (talk) 19:58, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Revi 16:54, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Almondega (talk) 00:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Jura to help sort out issues with other projects
Skim (talk) 13:52, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Marchitelli (talk) 12:29, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
BrillLyle (talk) 15:33, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Alexmar983 (talk) 23:53, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 10:44, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Chiara (talk) 14:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Thibaut120094 (talk) 20:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Ivanhercaz | Discusión   15:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
YULdigitalpreservation (talk) 17:35, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
PatHadley (talk) 21:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
Erica (ohmyerica) (talk) 19:26, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Mauricio V. Genta (talk) 05:38, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
Sam Wilson 09:24, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
Sic19 (talk) 22:25, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
MartinPoulter (talk) 09:21, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
ThelmadatterThelmadatter (talk) 01:11, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
Zeroth (talk) 15:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Beat Estermann (talk) 20:07, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Shilonite - specialize in cataloging Jewish & Hebrew books
Elena moz
Oa01 (talk) 10:52, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Maria zaos (talk) 11:39, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikidelo (talk) 13:07, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
Mfchris84 (talk) 10:08, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Mlemusrojas (talk) 3:36, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
salgo60 Salgo60 (talk) 12:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Dick Bos (talk) 14:35, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Marco Chemello (BEIC) (talk) 07:26, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 14:35, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Alicia Fagerving (WMSE)
Louize5 (talk) 20:05, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Viztor (talk) 05:48, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
RaymondYee (talk) 21:12, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Merrilee (talk) 22:14, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Kcoyle (talk) 22:17, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
JohnMarkOckerbloom (talk) 22:58, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Tris T7 TT me
Helmoony (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Shooke (talk) 19:17, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
DarwIn (talk) 14:58, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I am Davidzdh. 16:08, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Juandev (talk) 10:03, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Buccalon (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
MJLTalk 16:48, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Rosiestep (talk) 20:26, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Dcflyer (talk) 12:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
--Susanna Giaccai (talk) 05:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Asaf Bartov (talk) 19:03, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Msuicat (talk) 17:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
SilentSpike (talk) 15:27, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  Notified participants of WikiProject Books -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 20:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bodhisattwa: Ping doesn't work with groups that large. Also, why notify only "Books" but not participants in other publication-related groups such as Wikidata:WikiProject Periodicals, Wikidata:WikiProject Theatre, or Wikidata:WikiProject Anime and Manga? Books are not the only kind of written works that exist. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey:, you are always free to ping these project participants also. :-) -- Bodhisattwa (talk) 16:20, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
Technically   Keep, unless if I haven't heard some Phabricator tasks in order to resolve some bugs, it's still true that languages spoken, written or signed (P1412) is incompatible with some Wikisource gadgets. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:28, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Could you please clarify which Wikisource projects are affected by this, and how? English Wikisource is not affected at all. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:00, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
  Comment Which is the purpose of this property ? To describe the language in which a work was written, we use the language of work or name (P407). So why do we need a new property ? To get the language(s) used by a writer, just extract the language(s) of all his works. Snipre (talk) 20:59, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Please try the following query (language of works by Joseph Conrad):
SELECT ?work ?workLabel ?language ?languageLabel WHERE {
  ?work wdt:P31 wd:Q47461344 ;
        wdt:P50 wd:Q82925.
  ?work wdt:P407 ?language.

   SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
Try it!
No need to duplicate the data. Snipre (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
  Keep If a person grew up in China and wrote letters in Chinese, but published works only in Spanish, how would you know that person could write in both languages without this property? Not every published work will be in Wikidata, and certainly not most private correspondence. This property adds information not available otherwise. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:02, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @ArthurPSmith: You've misunderstood this property. It's not about what the author chose to publish, but for the language of their works as published by anyone. If they wrote letters in Chinese, and those letters were published (even after their death) than that qualifies under this property. It is not unusual for a person's diary or letters to be discovered and published once they have died. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:07, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • @EncycloPetey: Ah, I was responding to Snipre's claim. Regarding P1412, the proposal explicitly discussed this: "We used languages spoken, written or signed (P1412) for long, but it is now flooded with all sorts of languages that people read, or speak, or even understand, which leads to nonsense info about the writing languages of an author, like saying Jules Verne (Q33977) wrote in esperanto, and a discussion on frws, aiming to remove info coming from wikidata because of this..." ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:27, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
    @ArthurPSmith: Snipre said that the property is a duplication, and it is. Wikidata does not duplicate information. Snipre also showed that the information you desire can be extracted from their works. Their works are anything they produced, whether published or not, but Wikisource is concerned only with works published in some form, so I do not understand how your response pertains to that. Why would French Wikisource need information about languages in which a person wrote, but are used in works that will not be hosted on Wikisource? Also, there is nothing on Wikidata that says Jules Verne wrote in Esperanto. Fr.WS can correct the problem by relabelling their template output to match the content coded at Wikidata. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  Keep The property is clearly delimited (only for languages used in written works) and there's a good reason for its existence (it's needed on the French Wikisource). Maybe User:Hsarrazin can explain better how this property is used on the French Wikisource and why it's needed. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 23:48, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
  Keep, the removal is contrary to the sense in Wikidata.--Arbnos (talk) 18:36, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  Keep per Robin van der Vliet. --Epìdosis 17:35, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  Delete as nominator. The only rationale I've seen presented for keeping this property is that French Wikisource wants it. It is not the purpose of Wikidata to cater to desires of individual projects. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:44, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
  Delete Redundant. languages spoken, written or signed (P1412) with qualifier object has role (P3831) and written language (Q1149626) does the same job.--Jklamo (talk) 07:57, 19 August 2019 (UTC)


student (P802): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

Same as for doctoral student (P185): generally too many, and redundant with the reverse property. The most prominent students could be referenced with significant person (P3342) (and a role qualified as student (Q48282)) instead. —Nomen ad hoc (talk) 19:38, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Delete per nomination. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 19:39, 28 July 2019 (UTC).
  •   Delete Idem. student (P802) was originally supposed to keep only the main students but has been used in practice as an inverse property for student of (P1066) (notably after the inception of an inverse contraint). I agree that using the property properly wasn't that obvious (sources rarely differentiate the main and secondary students of a person). Anyway, it is currently cumbersome to maintain and do not bring anything new. Alexander Doria (talk) 18:47, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Delete - Premeditated (talk) 07:55, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
  •   Neutral leaning toward   Delete as it's indeed redundant wuth the inverse and it's a one-to-many relationship. Pinging the top 5 users of this property: @Simon Villeneuve, Yamaha5, Aiaiaiaiaia, Villy Fink Isaksen, AttoRenato:. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 06:15, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
  •   Neutral Will somebody move the present values of P802 to P3342 ?. We access to P802 in {{Infotaula persona}} of cawiki. I have no problem to change, but without lose the contents. Thanks,Amadalvarez (talk) 15:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
    We would ask a bot. Cheers, Nomen ad hoc (talk) 16:12, 12 August 2019 (UTC).
    Let me know when this should be moved. I can create a script for this. Edoderoo (talk) 17:37, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks dear Edoderoo. Well, when (and if) a reasonable consensus will be reached? Best, Nomen ad hoc (talk) 18:26, 18 August 2019 (UTC).
    Right now, nobody is against deletion (if data is moved, which is an obvious requirement to me). Lets give it some time, it's holidays season, and there is no need to rush. Edoderoo (talk) 18:06, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
    All right. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 18:17, 19 August 2019 (UTC).


majority opinion by (P5826): (delete | history | links | entity usage | logs | discussion)

has part (P527) majority opinion (Q6738447) / author (P50) can be used instead. I brought this up at Property talk:P5826 a week ago, to no response. (If this is kept, I will request that "dissenting opinion by", "concurring opinion by", etc. be created, so that they can be modeled the same way; please ping me when this is closed.) —DannyS712 (talk) 03:25, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

  Comment Isn't has part (P527) the reverse of part of (P361)? Nomen ad hoc (talk) 07:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC).
  Keep A dedicated property seems justified. And connected properties for dissenting and concurring opinions too. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 14:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC).
I agree with Nomen ad hoc that has part (P527) doesn't seem to be appropriate here. has parts of the class (P2670) seems to be nearer to the intended meaning but seems to be a bit complex for this usecase. Given that there are lots of legal cases I vote   Keep and endorse creating additional properties for "dissenting opinion by" and "concurring opinion by". ChristianKl❫ 13:54, 13 August 2019 (UTC)