Wikidata:Property proposal/Coordinates of depicted place

coordinates of depicted place edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Commons

Done: coordinates of depicted place (P9149) (Talk and documentation)

Description	Coordinates of the place depicted in the work (or Commons image)
Data type	Geographic coordinates
Template parameter	c:template:object location
Example 1	View of Delft (Q523974) → 52°0'15.0"N, 4°21'40.0"E
Example 2	Dedham Vale (Q4574726) → 51°58'17.8"N, 0°56'45.2"E
Example 3	The Windmill at Wijk bij Duurstede (Q2881603) → 51°58'10"N, 5°21'5"E
Example 4	c:File:German memorial, Apia, Samoa - August 2016.jpg → 13° 49′ 23.03″ S, 171° 46′ 28.82″ W
Example 5	c:File:Mount Everest as seen from Drukair2 PLW edit.jpg → 27°59'17"N, 86°55'31"E
Example 6	c:File:Statue of Liberty view from Brooklyn Bridge Park (New York) (30303583287).jpg → 40°41'21.153"N, 74°2'39.931"W
Robot and gadget jobs	move uses of P625 on Commons to use new property
See also	coordinate location (P625): geocoordinates of the subject. For Earth, please note that only WGS84 coordinating system is supported at the moment coordinates of the point of view (P1259): point from which the scene depicted by the element is seen (element can be a photo, a painting, etc.) depicts (P180): entity visually depicted in an image, literarily described in a work, or otherwise incorporated into an audiovisual or other medium; see also P921, 'main subject'

Motivation edit

It's often the case that we may know coordinates of where a view represents more accurately than we have an item for a main subject (P921) or depicts (P180).

Indeed, for files on Commons User:Multichill's bot has now added over 2 million such indications to SDC, using coordinate location (P625). (query: tinyurl.com/y5gjhk83). However, there's a problem with using P625 for this purpose. For most examples of creative work (Q17537576), in particular statues but also other works, we use P625 to indicate where the work currently is, not where it represents. Also, that means that the P625 value matches that for location (P276), as it does for every other kind of item or object (and a useful error check).

For paintings we currently have a confusion, as this query indicates: https://w.wiki/oHD -- in some cases P625 is being used for what the painting is of, in other cases for where it is.

It would be a good thing to end this confusion, and have a new property for the coordinates that a work or an image depicts. Jheald (talk) 12:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Proposed. Jheald (talk) 12:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Question Isn't this a general problem for anything at Commons? I suppose the above is slightly better than using p:P180/pq:P625. If it's for Commons mainly, please add some Commons samples. --- Jura 12:45, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- You can't use depicts (P180) if there isn't an item for the object being depicted. For a Commons example, any of the 2 million files currently using coordinate location (P625) would do. Jheald (talk) 18:27, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's possible, see c:Special:Diff/435869704 --- Jura 10:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - You're right. But given the extent to which P625 is being (mis?)used, and the capacity for confusion, as demonstrated above, a more specific new property seems desirable. Jheald (talk) 15:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"depicted place" does not seems well-defined (for example for a photo taken from a summit). Should we simply widen coordinates of the point of view (P1259)?--GZWDer (talk) 13:46, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Isn't coordinates of the point of view (P1259) for the opposite? For The Windmill at Wijk bij Duurstede (Q2881603) (3rd sample), the value of the proposed property would probably be the coordinates of Binnen korenmolen (Q50348747). --- Jura 17:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's as Jura says. Commons files make a consistent distinction between where the photo is taken from and the coordinates of what the photo is taken of -- see eg File:German memorial, Apia, Samoa - August 2016.jpg now added above, or bit.ly/3ldbmyl for a hundred more. Jheald (talk) 18:27, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wikidata requires static samples. Maybe it's worth picking samples where the difference between the two locations is bigger than the coordinates' precision. --- Jura 19:47, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Jura1: I don't really see what you're getting at here. There are a very large number of Commons images that use c:template:location (= coordinates of the point of view (P1259)) for where the picture was taken from), and c:template:object location (= P ???) for where the picture is of, with an identifiable difference between the two. The image given as an example above is one of them. Jheald (talk) 15:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The idea is to have a complete proposal for a new Commons property with samples (e.g. Property:P6731 based on this). If the coordinates in the samples are too close to the location of the point of view, people are more likely to make the confusion GZWDer made above (something that was unlikely here). --- Jura 16:17, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thanks for adding Example5, very clear example. I hope the proposal is very clear now. Jheald (talk) 15:59, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support NMaia (talk) 01:10, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Commons uses Commons:Template:Location for the camera location, which translates to coordinates of the point of view (P1259). For whatever is in the picture we use Commons:Template:Object location and used coordinate location (P625) because that was what we had at that time. I think we've come at the point now that we realize a separate property makes it easier and clearer. It will be used more than 3 million times on Commons and also used a bit here. Support. I don't worry about the conversion. That's just more work for a bot. Multichill (talk) 16:05, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Question Shouldn't this be used as a qualifier to Depicts? For example, the Mount Everest image covers a huge area and could be depicting several items. So for what point in that picture is the coordinate? An obviously trickier example is c:File:Rosenbad 2017 01.jpg, if not used as a qualifier, would the coordinate be for the governement (the building to the left) or the parliament (to the right)? Ainali (talk) 19:55, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that will just make the model more complicated without adding any benefit. No input for over two months so I'm marking this one as ready. Multichill (talk) 14:47, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jheald, Jura1, GZWDer, Ainali, NMaia: Done coordinates of depicted place (P9149). Multichill (talk) 18:33, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]