Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/ERIH PLUS ID

< Wikidata:Property proposal

ERIH PLUS ID edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Done: ERIH PLUS ID (P3434) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionidentifier of a journal in ERIH PLUS
RepresentsERIH PLUS (Q22921221)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainperiodical (Q1002697)
Allowed valuesnumbers
Example
Formatter URLhttps://dbh.nsd.uib.no/publiseringskanaler/erihplus/periodical/info.action?id=$1
Robot and gadget jobsthere are a few values harvestable with harvesttemplates tool to start with something

ERIH PLUS (Q22921221) (European Reference Index for the Humanities and Social Sciences) is a non-commercial open bibliographical-index-database-information-and-evaluation-system, established in 2002 by European Science Foundation (Q764847). In 2014 it was transferred to Norwegian Centre for Research Data (Q7061260). It hosts metadata of ~7720 European academic journals of humanities and social sciences. It would be a single value, since electronic and paper editions are stored under the same identifier. Strakhov (talk) 18:20, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

On hold by request of proposer. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:30, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  •    Well, I've checked the site and when a journal is in both indexes the identifier is identical. In the Norwegian Index there are around 20000 journals, in ERIH PLUS around 7700. Most of the journals in ERIH PLUS are present in Norwegian Index but not all of them. Obviously many journals in Norwegian Index are not indexed in ERIH. ERIH is a more well-considered index (it's somehow significant been indexed there, but not that much in the Norwegian Index, as far as I know. I didn't know this one until a week ago). They have been independent in the past (in 2014 ERIH was transferred to NSD) so... the split could happen again in the future. Considering this I support the creation of the property unless someone raises an objection. Strakhov (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Strakhov: Please provide an example or examples of journals in ERIH but not in NI; and of a journal or journals in both. What happens if a journal is only in ERIH, but is alter added to NI - does it keep its ID? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

   @Pigsonthewing: Let's see.

And examples of journals being in both indexes the two mentioned above:

If any of these three is in the future indexed in "Norwegian Index for Scientific Journals...." I suppose they'd assign the same identifier it has in ERIH, same "length", as they are always "empty" in Norwegian Index (as far as I checked, there are more examples). Strakhov (talk) 13:17, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that's all very clear. In that case I think we do not need a new property (formally: oppose). We should rename the existing property, and use a qualifier to show which of the two databases use the ID. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:35, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in the case we merge both NSD indexes I hope they do not take Separate Ways (Worlds Apart) (Q3006550) in the future. :) Anyways, what qualifier would be? Strakhov (talk) 13:45, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The formatter urls are different and not interchangeable. I don't know if the url is 'select-able' by means of qualifiers at "Wikidata level" (in the case it isn't, we won't be able to offer a click-able link here, but a naked number). Using the common index in Wikipedias would be not much of a problem, though. Strakhov (talk) 13:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
   For the moment I steal this argument. Strakhov (talk) 15:44, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Starkhov, Pigsonthewing: is this still on hold? If so is it worth continuing to hold or should it be withdrawn without prejudice to a future proposal when whatever is presently unclear becomes so? Thryduulf (talk) 18:00, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not on hold. It's "Under discussion", as noted in the proposal template. I made my view clear above and stand by that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:17, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 
A
I think Andy's position is clear. Mine too (quoting Máté: I checked and those who (I suppose) know more about these things did argue, that modelling external IDs in a different way than with the external ID datatype causes too much complexity, and storing the ID twice is still preferable to a pseudo-boolean qualifier that I mentioned.). This case is even more complicated since these indexes are not contained one inside the other, but "diagram A". We just need more people creating consensus toward one of both sides. Said that, it won't cause me a lot of pain having the proposal rejected. We'll probably miss a scientific journal index here, since I don't have the slightest idea of how to make that two-ways property viable (do we have any of these?) and if people watching Norwegian Register journal ID (P1270) will agree to something like that. Strakhov (talk) 18:45, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Strakhov, Pigsonthewing, Danrok: I have created ERIH PLUS ID (P3434) as it only partially overlaps with Norwegian Register journal ID (P1270).--Micru (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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