Wikidata:Property proposal/Fotografen.nl ID

Fotografen.nl ID edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

Done: Fotografen.nl ID (P3269) (Talk and documentation)

Description	Identifier for a photographer, in the Dutch fotografen.nl database
Data type	External identifier
Domain	person, organisation
Allowed values	\d+
Example	Maria Austria (Q19509427) → 3023
Source	http://www.fotografen.nl
Planned use	Add dataset to Mix'n'Match and add identifiers to as many photographers as possible
Formatter URL	http://fotografen.nl/en/fotografen/advanced/fotograaf/id/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	Mix'n'Match

Motivation

Very extensive Dutch photographers' database, which includes lots of biographical data, bibliography, etc. Spinster 💬 19:14, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

~~Support~~. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:09, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Awaiting further info. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:35, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Thryduulf (talk) 22:48, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment When investigating how to scrape this website, I noticed that the IDs are identical to the RKDartists ID (P650) ones. Fotografen.nl is a subset of the RKDartist photographers only - approx. 35,000 photographers from the Netherlands or with some kind of relationship to the Netherlands (once exhibited there, for instance). Not all persons with RKDartists ID (P650) have an official (indexed) entry in fotografen.nl; and fotografen.nl offers additional information in some cases (some written biographies, information where archives are held...). So I think it does definitely warrant its own property. Spinster 💬 08:01, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- So what IDs to people only in fotografen.nl have? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:34, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Pigsonthewing: There are no people only in fotografen.nl. All people in fotografen.nl have an ID in RKDartists as well. (Not vice versa.) Spinster 💬 10:32, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - In that case, Oppose. Add a second formatter URL to RKDartists ID (P650), marking the original FURL as preferred. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:19, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      - I disagree. Not all people in RKDartists are indexed and enhanced on fotografen.nl; only a small number. Fotografen.nl only contains photographers, with additional metadata about them (biographies, bibliography, information where their archives are held) which is only available on fotografen.nl for those specific photographers. Having a separate property on Wikidata for this would allow querying specifically for these people and then clicking on to find this specific metadata - pretty useful for any researcher or editor specifically interested in photographers and photography. So I keep pleading for a separate identifier. Spinster 💬 15:21, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      - (This is when you'd use a boolean to indicate whether this URL is valid too for the already recorded ID instead of recording it twice. – Máté (talk) 21:01, 3 September 2016 (UTC))[reply]
        Do we already do this for other properties? If so, what does this look like? How would you query this? If a researcher of, for instance, photography, would like to query all Wikidata items with external identifiers in photographers' databases, how would that query look like if fotografen.nl is treated differently than, say, Photographers’ Identities Catalog ID (P2750)? Spinster 💬 18:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        No, I don't think we've done this. What we have done, is creating sub-properites of external IDs (like EIDR content ID (P2704) of DOI (P356)). I checked and those who (I suppose) know more about these things did argue, that modelling external IDs in a different way than with the external ID datatype causes too much complexity, and storing the ID twice is still preferable to a pseudo-boolean qualifier that I mentioned. – Máté (talk) 19:34, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Maté. Strakhov (talk) 12:04, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Spinster. Multichill (talk) 19:29, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Spinster, Máté, Strakhov, Multichill, Thryduulf: @Pigsonthewing: Done ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:07, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]