Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/Kunya

< Wikidata:Property proposal

kunya edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

   Done: kunya (P8927) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionteknonym in Arabic names, the name of an adult derived from their eldest child
Representskunya (Q1285470)
Data typeItem
Example 1Abu Bakr (Q334923) → Abu Bakr (Q334826)
Example 2Umar ibn Al-Khattāb (Q8467) → Abu Hafs (Q103924317)
Example 3Usman ibn Affan (Q37731) → Abu Abdallah (Q103924462)
See alsonickname (P1449) and name in native language (P1559)

Motivation edit

(I am submitting this request on behalf of @Abu aamir: who requested my help to create this request. I am neutral as whether this property should be created or not.)

Hello I propose adding Kunya, within the entries of wikidata, provided that it needs to be cited, in Arabic, people are known and called by one or two or 3 of the three names types, namely, the personal name, the Kunya, and the title,for instance the first Muslim Caliph was know by his Kunya Abu Bakr, there are so many Muslims, arabs and non-arabs who are best know by their Kunyas, adding this entry is essential to understand and distinguish between proper names by which Arabs are called, moreover, most of contemporary Eastern ِArabs are called by their Kunya including not limited to politicians and notable people, and almost all Arabs of pre-colonial periods were called by their Kunyas, the Kunya has its own article in Arabic and English --Abu aamir (talk) 14:59, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notes from me (Meno25):

Discussion edit

@Meno25: Existing naming properties like family name (P734), given name (P735) and second family name in Spanish name (P1950) use the item type and not monolingual text. Do you see a reason why the monolingual text data-type would be better for this property? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: Not at all. I was hesitant when creating this request about the data type to use: monolingual text or item. The reason I used the former was just to save time. (If we used the "item" data type, then we need to create potentially hundreds of new items for different Arabic kunyas, as we don't have any currently on Wikidata, before we are able to add the kunyas to currently existing items about people. Also, please note that I am not an information scientist, who would be able to answer this question about how to store the information better than me.) --Meno25 (talk) 20:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: Hello, I am ready to respond to any further inquiry within my knowledge.--Abu aamir (talk) 14:27, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: Hello, I am following up on the proposal of adding Kunya, is there anything required to add it?.--Abu aamir (talk) 13:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Very nice, this is an addition with great value. last week I was working with @علاء: on Al-Jahiz (Q293497), we said that we need this item for almost all the islamic scholars. Thank you.--Michel Bakni (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • How many people share the same Kunya? Is it like last names where there are many people who have the same last name or are there many Kunya that only a few people have (like first name + last name)? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 21:41, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, this is not like that. today the kunya is the last name. But from a historical point of view, The Kunya was usually like a description of the person. In general, almost every historical figure has a Kunya. It always starts with the world Abu, which means "the father of". the idea of having children is super important in the Arabic culture. However, the word after abu can be a subject (check Abu Hurairah (Q69326) for example).
To give you a summary of historical Arab figures:
  • The first name
  • The name of the direct father
  • The name of the tribe, or the city where the person comes from.
  • The Kunya
  • The Laqab
for example, let's get the prophet, Muhammad (Q9458):
  • The first name: Mohammed (محمد)
  • The name of the direct father: Abdullah (عبد الله)
  • The name of the tribe Al-Qureshi (القرشي)
  • The Kunya: abu al-qasem (أَبو القَاسم)
  • The Laqab: The messanger of Allah (رسول الله)

أبو عبد الله محمد بن موسى الخوارزمي

Another example, the famous scholar Al-Khwarizmi Al-Khwarizmi (Q9038):
  • The first name: Mohammed (محمد)
  • The name of the direct father: Musa (موسى )
  • The name of the tribe Al-Khwarizmi (الخوارزمي)
  • The Kunya: abu al-qasem (أبو عبد الله)
  • The Laqab: NON
As you can see, These are all are very important to uniquely identify the person.
I hope this is useful.--Michel Bakni (talk) 23:43, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Both Gabriel García Márquez (Q5878) second family name in Spanish name (P1950) Márquez (Q12666120) and Lolo Sainz (Q565526) second family name in Spanish name (P1950) Márquez (Q12666120) and the same is true for many other people. As a result it makes sense to use an item for Márquez (Q12666120) and not just the string Márquez. If we would model it similarly we would get statements like Abu Bakr (Q334923)<Kunya>Abu Bakr (Q334826) instead of Abu Bakr (Q334923) <Kunya> أبو بكر (Arabic) as the example currently suggest. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 15:55, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ChristianKl: Yes, it should be modeled the same (as Abu Bakr (Q334923)<Kunya>Abu Bakr (Q334826) and Gabriel García Márquez (Q5878) second family name in Spanish name (P1950) Márquez (Q12666120)). The examples above seem to have confused you, so, please ignore them. --Meno25 (talk) 16:12, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Meno25, Michel Bakni: Can you then change the examples above into that form? (converting Usman ibn Affan (Q37731) → أبو عبد الله (Arabic), Umar ibn Al-Khattāb (Q8467) → أبو حفص (Arabic) and Abu Bakr (Q334923) → أبو بكر (Arabic))ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 16:17, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ChristianKl:   Done Examples changed as requested. The following examples give you an idea about how kunyas were once widely used in the Arab world:
--Meno25 (talk) 16:35, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Abu aamir, Meno25, ChristianKl, Michel Bakni:   Done kunya (P8927) Pamputt (talk) 19:25, 6 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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