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Wikidata:Property proposal/Natural science

< Wikidata:Property proposal

See alsoEdit

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property

  1. Check if the property already exists by looking at Wikidata:List of properties (research on manual list) and Special:ListProperties.
  2. Check if the property was previously proposed or is on the pending list.
  3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically.
  4. Select the right datatype for the property.
  5. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below and add it in the appropriate section.

Creating the property

  1. Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator.
  2. Creation can be done 1 week after the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator.
  3. See steps when creating properties.

  On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2019/07.

Contents


Physics/astronomyEdit


BiologyEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Taxonomy for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Taxonomy}}
Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Biology for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Biology}}

Insects (Insecta) of the World IDEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionidentifier for a taxon in the Insects (Insecta) of the World database
RepresentsInsects (Insecta) of the World (Q61664609)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domaintaxon (Q16521)
Allowed values\d{1,6}
Example 1Emperor (Q527496)788583
Example 2Hymenoptera (Q22651)906916
Example 3Papilio (Q311221)1753
Sourcehttp://insecta.pro/catalog
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Number of IDs in source780541
Formatter URLhttp://insecta.pro/taxonomy/$1

MotivationEdit

This new Wikidata property to identify taxa (Q42396390) offers photographs, descriptions and information on many insect taxa. Lymantria (talk) 08:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy. Tobias1984 (talk) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits TypingAway (talk) Daniel Mietchen (talk) Tinm (talk) Tubezlob Bamyers99 (talk) Vincnet41 Netha Hussain Fractaler

  Notified participants of WikiProject Biology.

  •   Support David (talk) 06:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose - seems to be awfully empty. - Brya (talk) 05:36, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
    That is true for a lot of the entries, although that is true for more databases having an external identifier. What I should have added is that the database at hand is linked to a couple of times at enwiki. Lymantria (talk) 06:20, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
    @Brya: The site reports 780541 entries. What were you reffering to as empty? --Kristbaum (talk) 08:40, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
    By "empty" I mean, lots of entries, very little actual content. - Brya (talk) 04:29, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Kristbaum (talk) 08:27, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

is a synonym of taxon nameEdit

   Ready Create
Descriptionmore or less the inverse of taxon synonym, P1420
Representssynonym (Q1040689) (including homotypic synonym (Q42310380), heterotypic synonym (Q59511375))
Data typeItem
Domaintaxa (Q16521), plus items for scientific names
Allowed unitstaxon (Q16521)
Example 1Enneapogon brachystachyus (Q50828916) -> Enneapogon desvauxii (Q5379150)
Example 2Asteriscus maritimus (Q50828075) -> Pallenis maritima (Q1780814)
Example 3Aristolochia littoralis auct. (Q61949225) -> Aristolochia elegans (Q1891719)
Example 4Sedum nuttallianum Raf. (1832) (Q50869677) -> Sedum nuttallii (Q15488076)
Expected completenesspartial (thousands already present in Wikidata, but the literature holds hundreds of thousands of synonyms, if not millions, mostly very obscure. It is to be hoped that most of these will never be imported into Wikidata, but it appears difficult to stop this entirely)
Robot and gadget jobsmaybe

MotivationEdit

Intended to replace "instance of: synonym" with qualifier "of [target name]" (used in several thousand items). It is noticeable that some users misunderstand taxon synonym (P1420) and use this when they want to express the reverse, namely "is a synonym of taxon name". The latter can be done at the moment by using "instance of: synonym" with qualifier "of: [target name]", but to some users this appears counter-intuitive. Since this is an important relationship, it seems wise to remove this apparent ambiguity.

This proposed property is intended to be not quite the inverse of taxon synonym (P1420), since P1420 is intended to produce a list of synonyms of a particular taxon name. This is useful for well-known synonyms, occurring frequently in the literature, as this eliminates unnecessary confusion. On the other hand, this proposed property will often be used for very obscure names that nobody ever heard of, but that somehow got introduced into Wikidata anyway. For these obscure names it is very useful to be able to establish a relationship to a taxon name, so that it is placed in perspective. Inclusion of such obscure names in a list of synonyms would not be a good idea, as this would give them more prominence, and likely would cause further confusion.

This proposed property is not intended for isonyms, orthographical variants, and misspellings (incorrect subsequent spellings and incorrect original spellings). These are not synonyms (other names), but erroneous manifestations of the same name. However, it is intended to include misidentications. - Brya (talk) 10:51, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy

DiscussionEdit

  •   Support David (talk) 06:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support It's kinda frustrating that this property didn't exist already. Circeus (talk) 16:46, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support I was looking for it! TED 19:33, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Redundant inverse. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
I think it is really useful to have pointers going both ways in a case like this, and that is a normal practice. Otherwise, when looking at one item there is no indication of the relationship to the other item. Strobilomyces (talk) 15:06, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Agreed, and that is so true that we should have a warning, in the kind if the one that you have when you put "category main topic" somewhere and that you forgot to do the opposite with "topic main category". Christian Ferrer (talk) 16:45, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose per Pigsonthewing. --Giovanni Alfredo Garciliano Díaz diskutujo 06:05, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment I do not understand why we should have items just for the synonym of a taxon. --GPSLeo (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
    Oh, lots of reasons.
    • To start with, there are a lot of Wikipedia pages for names that can be nothing but synonyms (no matter what taxonomy is followed). Wikidata is obliged to have items to accommodate these sitelinks.
    • There are also lots of pages for what is regarded as valid / correct in that Wikipedia, but that is regarded in other Wikipedia's (using a different taxonomy) as being a synonym. Wikidata is obliged to have items to accommodate these sitelinks.
    • Then there is the consideration that Wikidata aims to record data. Lots of data that is found in the literature is connected to names that may or may not be regarded as synonyms (depending on the taxonomy used). To manage this data it needs to be connected to the name used in the literature. This goes easiest if each name has its own item.
    We do have items for synonyms, and lots of them. The question is how to manage these. - Brya (talk) 17:39, 8 March 2019* (UTC)
    But there is a huge problem with labes, descriptions and aliases then. I think in most cases the label of a taxon is the most common common name in the language. And every scientific and former scientific name will be an alias. This will only create much confusion, because people will add the synonym as an alias to the main taxon and the main name as an alias to the synonym. And both items will get many common names. --GPSLeo (talk) 19:46, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
    There is indeed an ongoing problem with labels and aliases (hopefully not descriptions). It is slowly being cleared up with labels migrating to the scientific name, and scientific names in aliases being migrated to corresponding items.
            The only way to avoid items for synonyms would be to have a Central Authority that sets a single (Original Research) WMF-Taxonomy and prescribes that for all Wikipedia's, forbidding any page that does not conform. Given that many Wikipedia's have a No Original Research policy and given the independence of Wikipedia's, this is extremely unlikely to happen.
            There is indeed a risk of confusion, and this proposal is intended to combat this confusion. - Brya (talk) 07:17, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it is necessary to have a central authority or do original reseach in order to associated together all the names referring to one organism. It is just necessary to choose one name, without claiming that it is the real current name. But it seems to me that this property proposal falls into the same sort of criticism because I think it is using the word "synonym" in a sense which excludes the current name. For instance if A is the taxon and B and C are synonyms, A would not be a synonym. But I think it is better terminology to say that A, B anc C are synonyms and at present A is the current name. Doesn't this proposal require original research because it is necessary to identify which of a number of homotypic names is the real current one? Strobilomyces (talk) 15:06, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Any indication of whether a name is current / correct (according to a particular point of view) depends upon a taxonomic reference, which documents an actual decision by an actual taxonomist. So, normal practice by Wikidata does not involve Original Research but rather VER. However, a decision to appoint a Real Current Name (as in the One and Only True Name) may well violate NOR. But this is not normally done in Wikidata. - Brya (talk) 17:19, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support I have long been looking for this property too. --LamBoet (talk) 20:55, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @Circeus, TED and LamBoet Any idea why this could not reconciled from sourced statements of P1420 ? --Succu (talk) 21:38, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @Succu:: I don't understand the question. TED 07:08, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @*Pigsonthewing and Giovanni Alfredo Garciliano Díaz why do you think ist an inverse constraint (Q21510855) --Succu (talk) 22:21, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Panek (talk) 09:24, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Brya: Do we get rid of the instance of (P31)=synonym (Q1040689) statements? Should we mark special names (basionym (P566) or original combination (P1403)) somehow? --Succu (talk) 20:02, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
    The intent is to replace the instance of (P31)=synonym (Q1040689) statements, over time. However, it is probably wise not to rush into this, and to see first how things develop.
            As to basionym (P566) or original combination (P1403), this is unrelated. Both basionym (P566) and original combination (P1403) indicate nomenclatural relationships, while this proposed property deals with a taxonomic relationship. It is quite possible that a name that is the basionym of another name is not now regarded as a synonym by anybody (that there was once at least one taxonomist who based another name on it may not be all that relevant). - Brya (talk) 03:31, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
    I'm not really convinced that this a good solution, but it's much better than the P31 solution. Hence   Support. --Succu (talk) 18:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose. Unnecessary, redundant inverse. --Yair rand (talk) 20:04, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
    As explained above, in some cases it is an inverse, in other cases it definitely is not. And even when it is an inverse it serves a useful function: it is not redundant. - Brya (talk) 10:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment I don't think this proposal should be considered until there has been substantial further analysis of the meaning of the concept "synonym" and how it should be represented in Wikidata. Some relevant issues are:
    • The relationship "is a synonym of" can only apply to entities which are names. However, Wikidata applies them to items that are instances of taxon (Q16521). If Q16521 really represents a "taxon" – a group of organisms – then it's simply wrong to apply any kind of "synonym relationship" to such items. A taxon cannot be a synonym of another taxon; only a taxon name can be a synonym of another taxon name.
    • "Synonym" is not used with exactly the same meaning in the different nomenclature codes. For example, moving a species from one genus to another, creating a new combination, creates a new synonym in botanical nomenclature, but not in zoological nomenclature. The differences between the codes are not represented in Wikidata.
    • There is a significant distinction between "objective synonyms/homotypic synonyms/nomenclatural synonyms" and "subjective synonyms/heterotypic synonyms/taxonomic synonyms", again not represented in Wikidata.
    • As Brya notes, some cases of "X is a synonym of Y" imply that "Y is a synonym of X" and some do not, but this is complicated by Wikidata not distinguishing clearly what kind of synonym is involved, and by this being in some cases a subjective issue dependent on taxonomic opinion. For a botanist who chooses to place a species originally described as P q into a different genus R, as R q, the name R q is a homotypic synonym of P q. Databases such as the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families then list each name as a synonym of the other, treating the relationship as symmetric. (See e.g. the entries for Hyacinthus candicans, Galtonia candicans and Ornithogalum candicans in the WCSP.) If these were zoological names, strictly speaking they wouldn't be what the ICZN calls "synonyms" at all.
    • When one plant genus is sunk into another, e.g. Galtonia into Ornithogalum, those who choose the wider name, like WCSP, treat each genus name as a (heterotypic) synonym of the other, so that the relationship between the names is symmetric, although in this case the relationship between the taxa represented by the names is clearly not symmetric – Ornithogalum in its wider sense includes Galtonia but not vice versa. This is a particular problem in Wikidata if "synonym relationships", however expressed, are regarded as being between taxa rather than names. Also for those who maintain the two genera, Ornithogalum in its original narrower sense is not a synonym of Galtonia nor vice versa. So whether or not the two taxon names are synonyms of one another depends on the taxonomic view. Since Wikidata should be neutral on taxonomic views, we should be able to say both that they are synonyms (with a source) and that they are not (with a source). Um...
Peter coxhead (talk) 08:44, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
You're (somewhat indirectly touching) onto the heart of an issue I have with how Wikidata treats taxon and names: the property system surrounding name-related properties presumes that names are items, but nothing else in the data structure does. It's literally impossible to create a taxon name as a properly documented item without violating a whole bunch of constraint! Circeus (talk) 17:21, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
@Circeus: in practice, if not in theory, taxon (Q16521) actually represents both a taxon name (because it has relationships/properties only valid for names, like synonym or basionym), and a taxon (because it has relationships/properties only valid for taxa, like parent taxon or images). Peter coxhead (talk) 20:44, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Peter coxhead states: Databases such as the World Checklist of Selected Plant Families then list each name as a synonym of the other, treating the relationship as symmetric. (See e.g. the entries for Hyacinthus candicans, Galtonia candicans and Ornithogalum candicans in the WCSP.) . I don't recognize this at all: the WCSPF does what most everybody does. For Ornithogalum candicans it states "This name is accepted" and provides a list of names under the heading "Synonyms". For Hyacinthus candicans and Galtonia candicans it states "This name is a synonym" and refers to Ornithogalum candicans as the accepted name. There is no trace of a symmetric relationship: Hyacinthus candicans and Galtonia candicans are synonyms of Ornithogalum candicans. And this last has two synonyms: Hyacinthus candicans and Galtonia candicans. I don't see how it could be clearer. - Brya (talk) 02:00, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
@Brya: the usage of "synonym" you give above works if, and only if, (1) there is an accepted name, so that "synonyms" are always alternatives to the one accepted name (which as you have said before cannot be adopted here) and (2) there are different representations for "synonym" in the sense you used it (which implies a representation for the "accepted name"), "homotypic name" and "heterotypic name". With an accepted name and these three relationships, "synonym" is not symmetric, the other two are. What I see is Wikidata's "synonym" used for all kinds of "alternative scientific names", including "homotypic name". Do you really want to restrict "synonym of" to "accepted name"?
I note you didn't address the points about the confusion between "taxon" and "taxon name". Peter coxhead (talk) 20:37, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, "synonym" as used for taxonomy presupposes that there is an "accepted name" / "correct name": it is "the synonym of ...". A taxonomic paper will not call an unaccepted name that is unresolved a "synonym", but will have a separate heading for it ("unresolved names", "nomina inquirenda", etc) away from the accepted names.
        "Homotypic" and "heterotypic" apply primarily to nomenclature. "This name is homotypic with" is a symmetric relationship, and Wikidata probably could use a property "this name is homotypic with". Whether "this name is heterotypic to" is symmetric or not is more complicated: most of the millions existing names are heterotypic to most other names, and this could count as symmetric. However, in practice nobody would say anything like this. It is only relevant to comment on a name being heterotypic if there is a taxonomic relationship, and in that case the relationship will not be symmetric.
        And obviously you are right that "A taxon cannot be a synonym of another taxon;" although not about "only a taxon name can be a synonym of another taxon name": this would be "only a name can be a synonym of a taxon name". But we covered this elsewhere. - Brya (talk) 03:38, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Redundant inverse is not true, specially for quarries in the kind ("filter not exists {?item wdt:P31 wd:Q1040689.}") to exclude the taxa that are synonyms. I very often use "instance of " "synonym" "of", example Asterias echinophora (Q63607694). Therefore a such new property will be a little more easy and quick to use for me. The same principle could be applied to "subject has role" "protonym" "of" with a new property "protonym of" (same example with Asterias echinophora (Q63607694)). A property that can works to have the same result without the obligation to use qualifiers is of course much better for the future potential querries (and likely from the ontological point of view too), and should be preferrer IMO. Christian Ferrer (talk) 19:02, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment I think this property would be a good thing if it could be used to distinguish and conceal "very obscure names", especially old basionyms (which all need to have items in order to record the author information, following the taxonomy project tutorial). Please can I ask whether it will be restricted to items having "instance of" = "taxon"? If not, I think it could be part of a big improvement to the data model, eliminating garbage from "instance of" = "taxon". In that case it would be necessary to define what other "instance of" values are allowed. Strobilomyces (talk) 18:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
    The proposal is to use it in items for (non-taxon) scientific names as well as in items of taxa / names of taxa. - Brya (talk) 03:05, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Atlas of Living Australia IDEdit

   Ready Create
Descriptionidentifier for a taxon in the Atlas of Living Australia
RepresentsAtlas of Living Australia (Q16335177)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domaintaxon (Q16521)
Allowed values[^ ]+
Example 1Redback spider (Q82544)urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:b1ba5449-a68e-4c3b-ae90-8e667617945b
Example 2Aleeta curvicosta (Q4669532)urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:36752d3b-1d5f-4517-812b-cd52c81f8785
Example 3quokka (Q726151)urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:6e0e413a-e59c-413b-9d16-3d20b1bab707
Example 4Rainbow Lorikeet (Q319545)urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:91c90b44-e9dd-4ce1-a4b5-37d60d59b859
Example 5Drepanopeziza (Q5306959)NZOR-6-64791
Example 6Hibbertia spanantha (Q55766401)http://id.biodiversity.org.au/name/apni/4951507
Example 7Benthoxystus petterdi (Q4890423)24200205
Sourcehttps://www.ala.org.au/
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Planned usemix'n'match
Number of IDs in source645185
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttps://bie.ala.org.au/species/$1
Robot and gadget jobsyes
See alsoAPNI ID (P5984)

MotivationEdit

A very important database for Australian taxa. Interestingly, for plant taxa it instead pipes APNI ID (P5984) a URL constructor, so this property will not apply to plants. Plants can be found using APNI ID (P5984) and a third-party formatter URL (P3303) which I have added to that property. But this proposal should apply to any non-plant taxa. -- 99of9 (talk) 07:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Following feedback below, I have dug into the variety of different identifier formats they use (see the large file download at https://bie.ala.org.au/search?q=&fq=idxtype:"TAXON"). So I'm now proposing to generalise this property to accept all of their taxon identifiers. --99of9 (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia 99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy

DiscussionEdit

  •   Comment This will be extremely useful! Ambrosia10 (talk) 09:16, 3 July 2019 (UTC) In light of what has been explained below I regret to say I am withdrawing my unconditional support. This seems a shame, as I find Atlas of Living Australia extremely helpful and would very much like to add their external identifiers to taxon items so that others might benefit from the links. If only their identifiers were persistent. Ambrosia10 (talk) 10:57, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment My concern is that these identifiers are not persistent, the Atlas of Living Australia can change them at anytime. If you look at the web page for Example 2 you can see a series of identifiers labelled “Previous AFD LSID”. Each of these would have been the ALA identifier at some point in the past (I encountered this problem of identifiers changing while building Ozymandias: a biodiversity knowledge graph (Q63687022)). I don’t know what Wikidata’s policy is on identifiers that can change, so maybe this isn’t an issue, but it will complicate the lives of anyone relying on these identifiers being persistent. --Rdmpage (talk) 10:30, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Wow, I hadn't spotted that, thanks. I'll investigate whether using the alternative format: https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.name:320977 works better. That appears not to shift when the URNs change. The number 320977 seems to come from the Australian Faunal Directory, but I can't see where they are listed, so I'd like to better understand. Any clues would be gratefully accepted. --99of9 (talk) 12:09, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  • But the afd.name ids are for taxonomic names NOT taxa so they aren’t the same thing (although they are often conflated). Wikidata itself conflates the two, but I suspect it may be too late to undo this. I presume the reason ALA identifiers change is that some researchers argue that if our notion of a taxon changes then that taxon “concept” should have a new identifier. There is logic to that approach, but it makes linking to taxa harder. Note that I’m not arguing against having ALA identifiers, just trying to clarify their properties. I don’t know whether there are other examples of Wikidata identifiers that change overtime, and whether there are mechanisms to track those changes. --Rdmpage (talk) 12:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  • My understanding of this URL format is "get the ALA taxon associated with the afd.name with the index 320977", which ends up with a taxon. Certainly if you click the link in my previous comment, there is no clue that the page you get to is not about a taxon. --99of9 (talk) 12:46, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Regarding identifiers that change with time. An example where it works ok is ComLaw ID (P2461) which changes every time an act of parliament is amended by a later act. So for example Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979 (Q4824660) has a long list of values, with start and end dates. However, this works best when URLs with old IDs still give useful info (e.g. here they link to the pre-amendment act). For ALA, I think I'd rather not maintain a list of unpredictably broken links. --99of9 (talk) 12:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:41, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment @Rdmpage, Ambrosia10, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2: Thanks very much for your feedback. I've dug through this and made a major overhaul of the proposal. It turns out they have quite a few identifier formats for their taxon pages, because their data comes from a range of sources. The only thing in common is that they follow the URL formatter: https://bie.ala.org.au/species/$1. So I'm now proposing that we treat everything after that as the ID. This has the advantage that it will allow this property to be used on plants and NZ species, etc. So although less clean as an ID, it is more powerful and provides the stability associated with accepting the afd.name format discussed above. What do you think? --99of9 (talk) 03:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Thanks for all the work you are doing on this proposal 99of9. I'm going to let Rdmpage be my guide on this. I was wanting to ensure that any work I did adding this identifier wasn't going to be made redundant as a result of broken links. I'm happy to support now that you have a solution to this worry. However it may be that Rdmpage has more technical concerns. I'll read with interest what he has to say as I would very much like to add this identifier to my species wikidata workflow.--Ambrosia10 (talk) 03:33, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support I’m still a bit concerned about the stability of the identifiers, but I lack data on how many identifiers change and how often (other than my anecdotal experience that sometimes they do). Given how useful this identifier will be to people interested in the Australian biota I’m happy to support it. --Rdmpage (talk) 07:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support revised proposal, per Rdmpage. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --Lymantria (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment I'm a little surprised this is proposed as eventually complete under Expected Completeness, that would suggest that there will never be a new species described, identified, found or even accidentally imported to Australia. Surely all species related identifiers, not just this one should be defined as Always Incomplete ? CanadianCodhead (talk) 20:48, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough, I've switched it. Maybe it depends how long you're willing to wait for "eventually" :) --99of9 (talk) 23:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

image of bone or fossil recordEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionimage of the fossil, bone or skeleton of this taxon
Data typeCommons media file
Domaintaxons
Allowed valuesFile:<foo>.<ext>
Example 1Vespersaurus (Q64836111)File:Vespersaurus foot.png
Example 2pig (Q787)File:Domestic pig skeleton at MAV-USP.jpg
Example 3MISSING

MotivationEdit

It's common for entries for taxa, especially extinct ones, to have at least two suitable images: a photo/illustration and the skeletal remains/fossil for it. It would be good to have both in their relevant entries. NMaia (talk) 06:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

File:Domestic pig skeleton at MAV-USP.jpg / applies to part (P518) skeleton (Q7881) and Vespersaurus (Q64836111) image (P18)
File:Vespersaurus foot.png / applies to part (P518) fossil (Q40614)?--Tinker Bell 16:46, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Such as the explanation above, the existing property is sufficient David (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment In general, people prefer just one value in P18, so a selection with a distinct property could indeed be helpful. I'm not entirely convinced by the suggested wording, but I'm not really a specialist in the field. --- Jura 13:34, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Australian Marine Algal Name Index IDEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionidentifier of a name in the Australian Marine Algal Name Index
RepresentsAustralian Marine Algal Name Index (Q65617353)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domaintaxon (Q16521)
Allowed values[1-9]\d*
Example 1Hypoglossum revolutum (Q42173927)3435
Example 2Chlorophyta (Q264543)1
Example 3Sarconema filiforme (Q50358974)2677
Sourcehttp://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/amani?
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Planned useMix'n'Match
Number of IDs in source~9000
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URLhttp://www.anbg.gov.au/cgi-bin/amani?taxon_id=$1
Robot and gadget jobsyes

MotivationEdit

Solid list of Algal taxa maintained by an official organization. 99of9 (talk) 13:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --99of9 (talk) 13:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy --99of9 (talk) 13:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

ABBBS Taxon IDEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionunique identifier of a taxon listed in the Australian Bird and Bat Banding Scheme Database
Data typeExternal identifier
Domaintaxon (Q16521)
Allowed valuesregex: \d+
Example 1Double-banded Plover (Q1242812)895
Example 2Brown Noddy (Q525717)825
Example 3Coastal sheath-tailed bat (Q1830308)192
Example 4superb lyrebird (Q757013)653
Source[1]
Formatter URLhttps://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/biodiversity/abbbs/abbbs-search.pl?taxon_id=$1

MotivationEdit

Australian government database which contains information on the maximum extent of recorded migration of bird and bat species of Australia. Dhx1 (talk) 13:37, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --Dhx1 (talk) 13:40, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy --Dhx1 (talk) 13:40, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Plant Breeders Rights Application IDEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionunique identifier of a plant patent application in the Australian Plant Breeders Rights Database
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainplant (Q756)
Allowed valuesregex: \d{4}/\d{3}
Example 1Honeycrisp (Q3140024) → 1995/097
Example 2Pinova (Q320238) → 2000/300
Example 3Ambrosia (Q4741881) → 2003/052
Source[2]

MotivationEdit

Australian database of plant patents. This is particularly related to cultivars of common food, flower and domestic plant varieties. Dhx1 (talk) 14:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --Dhx1 (talk) 14:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

99of9
Achim Raschka (talk)
Andrawaag (talk)
Brya (talk)
CanadianCodhead (talk)
Christian Ferrer (talk)
Circeus
Dan Koehl (talk)
Daniel Mietchen (talk)
Enwebb
Faendalimas
FelixReimann (talk)
Infomuse (talk)
Infovarius (talk)
Jean-Marc Vanel
Joel Sachs
Josve05a (talk)
Klortho (talk)
Lymantria (talk)
MPF
Manojk
MargaretRDonald
Mellis (talk)
Michael Goodyear
Mr. Fulano (talk)
Nis Jørgensen
PEAK99
Peter Coxhead
PhiLiP
Andy Mabbett (talk)
Plantdrew
Prot D
pvmoutside
RaboKarbakian
Rod Page
Strobilomyces (talk)
Tinm
Tom.Reding
TomT0m
Tommy Kronkvist (talk)
Tris T7 TT me
Tubezlob
William Avery
  Notified participants of WikiProject Taxonomy --Dhx1 (talk) 14:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Comment the resource cannot be displayed David (talk) 06:33, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment It appears that the formatter URL only works if you first visit the main search page [3] so the browser gets a cookie/session associated with it first. I've removed the formatter URL for that reason. Dhx1 (talk) 10:54, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @Dhx1: Please make the examples links.Thank you David (talk) 08:28, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2: Example links won't work with the source site because it looks like cookies or other session information has to be obtained first by visiting the main page. Dhx1 (talk) 01:50, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Biochemistry/molecular biologyEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Molecular biology for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Molecular biology}}

ChemistryEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Chemistry for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Chemistry}}

HCIS IDEdit

   Done: HCIS ID (P7025) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionidentifier for a chemical in the Hazardous Chemical Information System by Safe Work Australia
RepresentsHazardous Chemical Information System (Q65240840)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainchemical substance (Q79529)
Allowed values[1-9]\d*
Example 1ethanol (Q153)1888
Example 2hydrogen peroxide solution (Q64878155)2530
Example 3(-)-nicotine (Q28086552)3216
Example 4carbon monoxide (Q2025)822
Sourcehttp://hcis.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/HazardousChemical
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Planned useMix'n'match
Number of IDs in source5728
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttp://hcis.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/HazardousChemical/Details?chemicalID=$1
Robot and gadget jobsyes

MotivationEdit

Chemical hazards database for common workplace substances, maintained by a Government organization. 99of9 (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --99of9 (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Hugo
Samuel Clark
Tris T7
Leiem
  Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry --99of9 (talk) 07:08, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Support David (talk) 07:15, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support (Good move!) MargaretRDonald (talk) 07:20, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Looks good to me. --Egon Willighagen (talk) 07:38, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Dhx1 (talk) 11:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support useful --Leiem (talk) 11:58, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --Trade (talk) 21:44, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Nickw25 (talk) 09:15, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Ok to import that ID for chemical compound (pure form), but for mixture like hydrogen peroxide solution I think we need to discuss first how to handle the composition problem. Snipre (talk) 12:16, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
@Snipre: but if you follow the link from our (unspecified concentration) item to their (unspecified %) item, you get "at various concentrations and, therefore, these solutions require different classification and labelling since the hazards vary at different concentrations", which seems quite reasonable when talking about a variety of concentrations. So I still think our item would be enriched by a link to their item. --99of9 (talk) 12:52, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
@99of9: But other databases or classifications have different assessment of mixture according to its concentration. I want to avoid a mass creation of new items for mixture to be able to import the HCIS ID and later to have to rename or merge them because we have to improve the definition to handle other classification of IDs. Snipre (talk) 08:30, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --DannyS712 (talk) 14:07, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --Hugo (talk) 03:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support Cwf97 (talk) 20:45, 16 July 2019 (EST)

@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, Leiem, MargaretRDonald, Nickw25, DannyS712, Trade: @Snipre, Hugo, Cwf97, Egon Willighagen, 99of9, Dhx1:   Done: HCIS ID (P7025). − Pintoch (talk) 17:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

AICS Chemical IDEdit

Descriptionunique identifier of a chemical in the Australian Inventory of Chemical Substances
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainchemical substance (Q79529)
Allowed values\d+
Example 1sodium chloride (Q2314)11196
Example 2dibromine (Q2685750)11263
Example 3potassium triiodide (Q23951957)13262
Example 4phosgene (Q189090)896
Sourcehttps://www.nicnas.gov.au/chemical-inventory
Formatter URLhttps://www.nicnas.gov.au/search/chemical?id=$1

MotivationEdit

The AICS database contains a list of chemicals registered for import and use in Australia, and provides information on whether usage and reporting restrictions apply to the chemical. Dhx1 (talk) 12:09, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Saehrimnir
Leyo
Snipre
Jasper Deng
Dcirovic
Walkerma
Egon Willighagen
Denise Slenter
Daniel Mietchen
Andy Mabbett
Kopiersperre
Emily Temple-Wood
Pablo Busatto (Almondega)
Nothingserious
Antony Williams (EPA)
TomT0m
Wostr
Devon Fyson
User:DePiep
User:DavRosen
Benjaminabel
99of9
Kubaello
Fractaler
Sebotic
Netha
Hugo
Samuel Clark
Tris T7
Leiem
  Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia

  •   Support I just put that one on my list tonight! --99of9 (talk) 12:25, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @Dhx1: I tried to create this property but an automatic check failed: example value "11196" does not match regular expression regex: \d+.. Please fix your proposal and your property will be created shortly. This is an automated message but do not hesitate to ping me if you need any help. − Pintoch (talk) 17:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @Pintoch: I removed the "regex:" string from the allowed values field, which should hopefully help the bot/automated process. Regex looks OK otherwise. Dhx1 (talk) 01:52, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, 99of9, Dhx1:   Done: AICS Chemical ID (P7049). − Pintoch (talk) 06:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

MedicineEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Medicine for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Medicine}}

ANZCTR IDEdit

   Done: ANZCTR ID (P7019) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionidentifier of a clinical trial in the Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry
RepresentsAustralian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry (Q65242932)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainclinical trial (Q30612)
Allowed values[1-9]\d*
Example 1Radiotherapy - Adjuvant Versus Early Salvage (Q61981481)2283
Example 2Evaluating the Utility of a Patient Decision Aid for Prospective Participants in the Trans-Tasman Radiation Oncology Group Radiotherapy - Adjuvant Versus Early Salvage Prostate Cancer Trial (Q65243474)343075
Example 3Lithium Cannabis Withdrawal Study (Q62104859)579
Sourcehttp://www.anzctr.org.au/TrialSearch.aspx?
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Planned useMix'n'match?
Number of IDs in source6998
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttps://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=$1&isClinicalTrial=True
Robot and gadget jobsyes

MotivationEdit

Another reputable database with solid IDs for items which don't have many. 99of9 (talk) 07:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --99of9 (talk) 07:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Thierry Caro Ambrosia10 Einebillion Canley

  Notified participants of WikiProject New Zealand --99of9 (talk) 07:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Anandhisuresh (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)anandhisuresh Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
Dr. Abhijeet Safai
Adert
CFCF
Jtuom
Lucas559
Drchriswilliams
Okkn
CAPTAIN RAJU
LeadSongDog
Ozzie10aaaa
Sami Mlouhi
Marsupium
Netha Hussain
Abhijeet Safai
ShelleyAdams
Fractaler
Seppi333
Shani Evenstein
Csisc
linuxo
Arash
  Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine --99of9 (talk) 07:41, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry, ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, MargaretRDonald, Csisc, Nickw25, DannyS712: @Trade, Tibbs001, 99of9, Dhx1:   Done: ANZCTR ID (P7019). − Pintoch (talk) 17:15, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

PBS Manufacturer IDEdit

   Ready Create
Descriptionunique identifier for a pharmaceutical manufacturer listed in the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainbusiness (Q4830453), pharmaceutical company (Q19644607)
Allowed valuesregex: [a-z]{2}
Example 1Alphapharm (Q4735264)al
Example 2Alphapharm (Q4735264)af
Example 3Ego Pharmaceuticals (Q5348156)eo
Sourcehttps://www.pbs.gov.au/browse/manufacturer-list
Formatter URLhttps://www.pbs.gov.au/browse/manufacturer/$1

MotivationEdit

Identifier used to identify pharmaceutical manufacturers with drugs/medicines listed in the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. This identifier can be used to search for drugs/medicines from a particular manufacturer. Dhx1 (talk) 13:21, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Anandhisuresh (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)anandhisuresh Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
Dr. Abhijeet Safai
Adert
CFCF
Jtuom
Lucas559
Drchriswilliams
Okkn
CAPTAIN RAJU
LeadSongDog
Ozzie10aaaa
Sami Mlouhi
Marsupium
Netha Hussain
Abhijeet Safai
ShelleyAdams
Fractaler
Seppi333
Shani Evenstein
Csisc
linuxo
Arash
  Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia

  •   Support thanks for proposing this. Strange to see two codes for Alphapharm. Did you figure out why? --99of9 (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
      Comment @99of9: Not sure why--but when I've seen a similar situation with other databases, it has typically been due to a merger of companies and both codes therefore applying to the new merged company. Dhx1 (talk) 12:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

PBS Drug CodeEdit

   Done: PBS Drug Code (P7048) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionunique identifier for a drug listed in the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainmedication (Q12140)
Allowed values[0-9]+[A-Z]
Example 1abacavir (Q304330)10294T
Example 2epinephrine (Q132621)5004J
Example 3amoxicillin (Q201928)1889K
Example 4acetaminophen (Q57055)1746X
Sourcehttps://www.pbs.gov.au/browse/medicine-listing

MotivationEdit

Thousands of pharmaceuticals are listed in the Australian Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, with multiple manufacturers listed as supplying these pharmaceuticals to the Australian market. This property allows medications/pharmaceuticals to be linked to their respective PBS drug codes, providing other information such as product information sheets, consumer medical information sheets, pricing, etc. Dhx1 (talk) 13:48, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Anandhisuresh (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)anandhisuresh Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
Dr. Abhijeet Safai
Adert
CFCF
Jtuom
Lucas559
Drchriswilliams
Okkn
CAPTAIN RAJU
LeadSongDog
Ozzie10aaaa
Sami Mlouhi
Marsupium
Netha Hussain
Abhijeet Safai
ShelleyAdams
Fractaler
Seppi333
Shani Evenstein
Csisc
linuxo
Arash
  Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia

  •   Support thanks for proposing this. --99of9 (talk) 21:48, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:25, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @Dhx1: I tried to create this property but an automatic check failed: example value "10294T" does not match regular expression regex: [0-9]+[A-Z].. Please fix your proposal and your property will be created shortly. This is an automated message but do not hesitate to ping me if you need any help. − Pintoch (talk) 17:18, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
  • @Pintoch: I think I needed to remove the "regex:" preceding the allowed values string to allow the bot/automated process to work. Regex looks OK to me otherwise. Dhx1 (talk) 01:01, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2, 99of9, Dhx1:   Done: PBS Drug Code (P7048). − Pintoch (talk) 06:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

DoseEdit

   Under discussion
Representsdose (Q473420)
Data typeQuantity
Allowed unitsMilligrams, micrograms, international units
Example
route of administration (P636) = oral administration (Q285166)
time period of periodically occurring event (P2257) = 1 day
Sourceen:Dose (biochemistry)
Planned usePlan is to use as a qualifier for the price of different medications
Robot and gadget jobsEventually
Motivation

Doses of medications will be required for listing prices or defining how a medication is usually taken.

For example the typical dose of amoxicillin is 500 mg po TID

The wholesale price of 500 mg of amoxicillin is 0.063 USD as of July 17th, 2019 in the United States.[4]

Right now we are using "quantity" but when one adds 400 mg it gives a warning Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:33, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Discussion

Anandhisuresh (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2018 (UTC)anandhisuresh Tobias1984
Doc James
User:Bluerasberry
Wouterstomp
Gambo7
Daniel Mietchen
Andrew Su
Peter.C
Klortho
Remember
Matthiassamwald
Projekt ANA
Andrux
Pavel Dušek
Was a bee
Alepfu
FloNight
Genewiki123
Emw
emitraka
Lschriml
Mvolz
Franciaio
User:Lucas559
User:Jtuom
Chris Mungall
ChristianKl
Gstupp
Geoide
Sintakso
علاء
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Lucas559
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CAPTAIN RAJU
LeadSongDog
Ozzie10aaaa
Sami Mlouhi
Marsupium
Netha Hussain
Abhijeet Safai
ShelleyAdams
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Seppi333
Shani Evenstein
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Arash
  Notified participants of WikiProject Medicine

  • @Doc James: Please provide a description for the property and examples.
I'm a bit weary about the potential of people adding a dose to the chemical compounds. Inutively it seems to me like only packaged drugs have a dosis and the dosis isn't a property of the underlying chemical substances. ChristianKl❫ 14:06, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
@ChristianKl: Q147101 look at price, currently quantity is being used Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 16:24, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Question Should this property also address dose units for other than chemicals, such as for Q186161 ionizing radiation? LeadSongDog (talk) 17:25, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
    • User:LeadSongDog you mean in a medication related context? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:38, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
      • No, not just in medication-related context: In a ionizing radiation safety context, workers wear dosimetry badges to track occupational exposure; In semiconductors, defined quantities of neutrons cause defined p-type doping effects; In a photochemistry context, defined quantities of light are used to power many reactions (e.g. photosynthesis, epoxy polymerization, cross-linking of synthetic rubbers, etc.); In food safety, defined radiation doses can be used to sterile-package uncooked foods as an alternative to Pasteurization. LeadSongDog (talk) 15:44, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Isn't this what defined daily dose (P4250) is for? There are also some related properties like acceptable daily intake (P2542) that cover other aspects of this. In any case the current proposal is too ill-defined to be suitable here. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:47, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
    Oh, hang on, you just want a property that works like "quantity" but allows units/non-integer values? It looks like we don't have something for that at all - how about calling this "amount" then? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:53, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
    User:ArthurPSmith yes perfectly happy with calling it "amount". What we are looking for is a dosage which is an amount for a medication. DDD is a specific type of amount as is ADI. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:56, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Doc James: We might want to try a completely new proposal for that - this one seems a little too tied to the medical context; we should also come up with some other examples where it would be useful, I'm sure they exist! ArthurPSmith (talk) 21:02, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    User:ArthurPSmith Actually it might be best to tie this specifically to medications. We could remove a constraint from quantity (P1114) but that could have a lot of negative effects. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:11, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
  • I checked defined daily dose (P4250) and acceptable daily intake (P2542) to see how the proposal modeled examples for those properties. There is hardly any modeling. I tried to do some modeling here in this edit. Before it referred to an item, and now there is still that item linked but I also tried to move the administration and event frequencies here for discussion. To talk about a dose, we need an amount, a time period, and an administration route, right? Is it still worthwhile to describe a dose with less information than that? What other information is also helpful?
I am unsure with Arthur about overlap with those existing properties, which may be sufficient. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:42, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
We may also need formulation, like is it extended release, oral dissolving tablet, liquid, tablet, capsule, etc. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:01, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

  Support It is needed for the particular usage of medecine. Antoine2711 (talk) 21:11, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

MineralogyEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Mineralogy for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Mineralogy}}

Computer scienceEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Informatics for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Informatics}}

GeologyEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Geology for more information.

GeographyEdit

WaterNSW Rivers and Streams Site No.Edit

   Under discussion
Descriptionsite number of a river or stream in the real time water data published by WaterNSW
RepresentsReal-time rivers and streams data by WaterNSW (Q65618878)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainbody of water (Q15324)
Allowed valuesregex: [1-9]\d*
Example 1Carcoar Dam (Q1035621)412106
Example 2Capertee River (Q1034560)212018
Example 3Hawkesbury River (Q1591703)212406 qualifier location (P276)Sackville (Q7396843)
Example 4Hawkesbury River (Q1591703)212461 qualifier location (P276)Leets Vale (Q6516522)
Sourcehttps://realtimedata.waternsw.com.au/
External linksUse in sister projects: [de][en][es][fr][it][ja][ko][nl][pl][pt][ru][sv][vi][zh][commons][species][wd].
Planned useMix'n'match
Number of IDs in sourceat least a few hundred
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URLhttps://realtimedata.waternsw.com.au/?ppbm=$1&rs
Robot and gadget jobsyes
See alsoBureau of Meteorology station ID (P3796)

MotivationEdit

Current IDs for rivers don't provide much info apart from the location. This gives river cross sections and charts water flow and levels over time. 99of9 (talk) 14:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Thierry Caro 99of9 Canley Mattinbgn Kerry Raymond Samwilson JarrahTree ScottDavis Oronsay Pru.mitchell Bidgee Harryboyles Dhx1 SJK Nickw25 Danadl MargaretRDonald Wittylama Nicolekearney

  Notified participants of WikiProject Australia --99of9 (talk) 14:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

  •   Support. I also updated the regex to use "+" instead of "*". In other words, empty values aren't allowed. Dhx1 (talk) 14:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for your support. The leading [1-9] will ensure the string is not empty. The extra \d characters could in principle be unused. --99of9 (talk) 14:36, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
@99of9: Oops I completely misread the first regex. Thanks for reverting! Dhx1 (talk) 15:21, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support. Good to have our most important resource, water, better identified. Oronsay (talk) 20:03, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:24, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support. Will be very useful. Lots of ambiguity around stream names in enwiki at least. A unique identifier will help (at least for NSW). -- Mattinbgn (talk) 22:56, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support David (talk) 06:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support --Trade (talk) 11:49, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

MathematicsEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Mathematics for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Mathematics}}

in defining formulaEdit

   Under discussion
Descriptionsymbol used for this in defining formula
Data typeMathematical expression
Domainitems with defining formula (P2534), calculated from (P4934)
Allowed valuespart of value of defining formula (P2534)
Example 1f-number (Q862169) calculated from (P4934) focal length (Q193540) 
Example 2f-number (Q862169) calculated from (P4934) diameter of the entrance pupil (Q63572027) 
Example 3f-number (Q862169) 
Example 4note for samples 1/2/3: f-number (Q862169) has defining formula (P2534)  
Expected completenesseventually complete when P4934 can be defined
See alsodefining formula (P2534), calculated from (P4934)

MotivationEdit

Seems to be missing information about P2534 (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 10:31, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

  • To bo honest, I do not really understand the proposal. How does it compare to the has part annotations that are used for example in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q35875?--Physikerwelt (talk) 17:29, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure. Use of has part (P527) on items with defining formula (P2534) seems pretty random. There are currently 97 items on [5]: they don't appear to be structured. It might work on one or the other item when reading the statement 1-by-1 and knowing in advance what to look for. Also, the proposal might not be suitable for every item about physics. --- Jura 11:30, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
  • @Swpb: I just noticed your comment on Property_talk:P416 once more. Maybe you were looking for something in the same direction. --- Jura 04:34, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
I was looking to use quantity symbol (P416). I see no need for this new property. Swpb (talk) 15:27, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
  • @Swpb: I don't think it's currently defined as being used that way nor does it appear to be particularly structured to do so. Also, I think it's better to use the same format/datatype. --- Jura 16:28, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support. Logical property.--Arbnos (talk) 13:55, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Base materialEdit

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Materials for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Materials}}

surface roughnessEdit

   Ready Create
Descriptioncomponent of surface texture quantified by the deviations in the direction of the normal vector of a real surface from its ideal form
Representssurface roughness (Q114817)
Data typeQuantity
Template parameterThis proprety request is part of the project of creating an infobox for materials
DomainMechanical property of all solid Materials
Allowed valuesAny number. Qualifiers : relative to (P2210) (mandatory) + others depending on the use
Example 1N12 Roughness (Q62034144) : surface roughness (Pxxx) → 50 µm relative to (P2210)Ra (Q55776776)
Example 2N12 Roughness (Q62034144) : surface roughness (Pxxx) → 200 µm relative to (P2210)Rt (Q55776788)
Example 3stainless steel (Q172587) : coefficient of friction (P5575) → 0,3 with qualifiers surface roughness (Pxxx) → 3,2 µm and relative to (P2210)Ra (Q55776776)
Sourcew:Surface roughness
Planned useCreating an infobox for materials

Motivation

This proprety request is part of the project of creating an infobox for materials. To be used as a qualifier for properties such as coefficient of friction, fatigue limit or corrosion resistance. It could also be used as a standalone property for parts, measuring methods, standards or manufacturing processes such as Abrasive blasting (Q917273) with qualifier like the granularity of sand, the velocity and the material. It could also be a geologic property referring to soil surface roughness.

Discussion

  •   Support David (talk) 07:36, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support @Thibdx: are you still interested in this? If so could you add qids in the examples so that we can create this? If not, please use |status=withdrawn. − Pintoch (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, @Pintoch:. Added. I'm still interested in this. However now that I have a deeper understanding of Wikidata I'm turning partisan of having more properties but that represent exact scientific concepts and that are not a hood for several measures. In the example 3 the surface roughness is used as a qualifier. But since surface rougness is a general concept and not an exact measure, we need to add the type of measure that was used. The most used is the Ra (Arithmetical mean deviation of the assessed profile). There is also the Rv (Maximum valley depth), Rp (Maximum peak height), Rt (Maximum Height of the Profile), Rz (Average distance between the highest peak and lowest valley in each sampling length)... The problem is that since surface rugosity is used as a qualifier, we cannot add a qualifier of a qualifier to enforce the precision needed. In my opinion this model make general "hood" properties very weak in the context of Wikidata. The molecular biology project had exactly the same problem. First they used the general property physically interacts with (P129) with qualifiers to specify all sort of interactions. For example, if a molecule is an agonist or an antogonist of the target receptor. Then they created the properties agonist of (P3772), antagonist of (P3773), activator of (P3771), disrupting agent for (P3775), inhibitor of (P3776), antisense inhibitor of (P3777), positive allosteric modulator of (P3778), negative allosteric modulator of (P3779)... Now it is a mess in the datasets because some items use the old way and some use the new way... I know that some admins are pushing to limit the number of properties but being not precise enough seems to raise problems in the long term. It is the core problematic in industry, where we have to deal with the hard reality of physics instead of simple concepts. A basic example : many engineers don't know the types of stainless steels. But a martensitic stainless steel react catastrophically to thermo/chemical treatments designed for austenitic stainless steels... I think that we need a general policy at Wikidata level to design properties that have the good level of details. In order to avoid specific details that would only be raised on a couple of items but enough detailled to represent something that is scientifically measured. --Thibdx (talk) 22:14, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

shrinkageEdit

   Ready Create
DescriptionReduction in the size of something, or the process of becoming smaller, typically when a material return to room temperature after heating.
RepresentsShrinkage (Q1170964)
Data typeQuantity
Template parameterThis proprety request is part of the project of creating an infobox for materials.
Domainbase material (Q214609)
Allowed valuesAny number. direction (P560) maybe used for material with an anisotropic shrinkage. determination method (P459) or fabrication method (P2079) shall be specified. Two temperature (P2076) values are needed except if the process already define it.
Allowed unitspercentage (Q11229)
Example 1nylon 6-6 (Q7071155) → 0,1 % with direction (P560)parallelism (Q53875) and fabrication method (P2079)injection molding (Q260606)
Example 2nylon 6-6 (Q7071155) → 0,9 % with direction (P560)normal (Q273176) and fabrication method (P2079)injection molding (Q260606)
Example 3Grivory GM-4H (Q57051271) → 0,8 % with fabrication method (P2079)injection molding (Q260606)
Sourcew:Shrinkage
Planned useCreating an infobox for materials

Motivation

Shrinkage is one of the most important information considering the processing of a material. It is needed to define the exact dimensions of the mold. --Thibdx (talk) 21:06, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

  •   Comment from the samples/description, it seems that the proposal needs datatype quantity, not item. I updated that above. --- Jura 11:20, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Right. Thanks for the update. --Thibdx (talk) 20:11, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support, it looks sensible even if I am not knowledgeable in this field − Pintoch (talk) 22:49, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
  •   Support.--Vulphere 15:20, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

  Comment: this seems very detached from reality: often shrinkage and expansion are reversible. If a block of metal is heated it becomes bigger, if it cools it becomes smaller, and in that case shrinkage and expansion are linked. For natural materials it is different, these often shrink as they dry, but this is different from metals. - Brya (talk) 05:59, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

AllEdit