Wikidata:Property proposal/Transportation
Property proposal: | Generic | Authority control | Person | Organization |
Creative work | Place | Sports | Sister projects | |
Transportation | Natural science | Lexeme | Wikimedia Commons |
See alsoEdit
- Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending – properties which have been approved but which are on hold waiting for the appropriate datatype to be made available
- Wikidata:Properties for deletion – proposals for the deletion of properties
- Wikidata:External identifiers – statements to add when creating properties for external IDs
- Wikidata:Lexicographical data – information and discussion about lexicographic data on Wikidata
This page is for the proposal of new properties.
Before proposing a property
Creating the property
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On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2021/03. |
InfrastructureEdit
GeneralEdit
route operatedEdit
Description | route operated by any type of transport modality, person or company |
---|---|
Represents | service (Q1067164) |
Data type | Item |
Domain | transportation |
Example 1 | Utne (Q25427801) → Kinsarvik - Utne - Kvanndal ferry (Q11980707) |
Example 2 | MS Bergensfjord (Q819550) → Q65235588 |
Example 3 | Russian Railways (Q660770) → Trans-Siberian railway (Q58767) |
Example 4 | Fjord Tours (Q98398260) → Norway in a nutshell (Q25430636) |
Expected completeness | always incomplete (Q21873886) |
See also | operator (P137) |
Motivering/begrunnelseEdit
We need a property to assign which route a vessel, vehicle, company etc. is operating. Cavernia (talk) 11:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
- Oppose See item operated (P121).--GZWDer (talk) 11:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- I've considered this property, but then the use of it must be extended, and we might get some challenges. I.e. Fjord1 (Q697074) is operating the ship MF Bergensfjord (Q11204017), and then MF Bergensfjord (Q11204017) operate Mortavika - Arsvågen ferry (Q19381877). --Cavernia (talk) 14:09, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Use item operated (P121): equipment, installation or service operated by the subject Pmt (talk) 16:14, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
- Question @Cavernia: I agree that item operated (P121) comes close, but a vehicle doesn't really operate a route, nor does the route operate the vehicle. Instead, the company operates both the route and vehicle. This is not sufficient though to link the route to the vehicle, as a company usually operated several routes and vehicles. However, would using used by (P1535) on the route item fill the role? Josh Baumgartner (talk) 06:25, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
- I see your point. Maybe a better description would be "in operation at route" or "in traffic at route"? I've considered it, but I don't think used by (P1535) will fit, as the vehicle don't "use" the route. It might make some sense in English, but hardly in other languages. --Cavernia (talk) 02:08, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
- Support specific property for use on vehicle QIDs to link the route they are operated on, as this certainly can't be satisfied by either item operated (P121) or used by (P1535). Josh Baumgartner (talk) 15:25, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
- I see your point. Maybe a better description would be "in operation at route" or "in traffic at route"? I've considered it, but I don't think used by (P1535) will fit, as the vehicle don't "use" the route. It might make some sense in English, but hardly in other languages. --Cavernia (talk) 02:08, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
AviationEdit
- see also: WikiProject Aviation
Maritime transportEdit
- see also: WikiProject Ships
ship's captainEdit
MotivationEdit
For older ships, identification is sometimes done by name, flag and captain. The above would allow to add the last element to an item for a ship.
Somehow I thought we had a property for this already, but we only have a few related ones (see above). Notably P4791 is used on submarines, few civil ships use it (incorrectly). An option could be to add P39 statements to people, but it seems to me that it's preferable to add this to the ships directly. (Add your motivation for this property here.) --- Jura 10:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Notified participants of WikiProject Ships please help complete the proposal. --- Jura 10:19, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
- I would love to see this property. But why would you use inception (P571) for a captain? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nortix08 (talk • contribs).
- Oh, sorry for that: it should be point in time (P585): I updated it. --- Jura 19:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support Christian Ferrer (talk) 08:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support Nortix08 (talk) 10:49, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support If the captain has a WD entry it should be linkable to a ship item. We could also go vice versa and create "command held" for ship captains and other persons of authority. De728631 (talk) 19:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support NMaia (talk) 00:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Jura1, Christian Ferrer, Nortix08, De728631, NMaia:Why not make the scope of captain (P634) to include ships? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 16:43, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Recording this is good, but this proposed property seems to have a lot of overlap with commanded by (P4791), and I worry that having two closely defined properties would cause confusion about the scope. Are we going to use this for all ships, and avoid using commanded by (P4791) for ships at all? Or use both on naval ships? Andrew Gray (talk) 17:42, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Broaden and use commanded by (P4791) It will be to many properties commanded by, as the same can be used for a spacecraft, an polar expedition (where the leader was appointed). The opposite have allready existed by commander of (DEPRECATED) (P598) Pmt (talk) 17:51, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment chief executive officer (P169) could be another option. It's seems closer to the meaning, but still seems suboptimal. captain (P634) might lead to translation problems. In any case, merely including it there based on the name in English (among others), I'm somewhat reluctant to do that. From the samples by @Nortix08:, I take it that this should be used for military ships replacing P4791, at least if it covers the actual captain. The meaning of ship captain seems fairly clear, isn't it? --- Jura 19:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if this is one or the more intuitive for use with military ships. For merchant ships this proposal is definitely the better choice. Possibly a restriction should be made, which says that commanded by (P4791) should only be used for military units. chief executive officer (P169) is for a leader of a company and not comparable to a military leader and captain (P634) is IMHO related to sports only. Nortix08 (talk) 08:54, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
- Comment There are cases where the ship captain is not the person in command of the ship, just the nautical captain, and the command is held by a noble man or military, but still not a commondore or commander of a fleet. On cruise vessel you will also have the staff captain. And you may have the supercargo. Pmt (talk) 20:41, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support Good idea, but it should be used with the qualifiers start time (P580) and end time (P582). --Cavernia (talk) 20:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support I think so with qualifiers start time (P580) and end time (P582).--Kette~cawiki (talk) 14:08, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose commanded by (P4791) is sufficient. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:26, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- Wait not sure this is needed. What about crew member (P1029) with qualifiers ship captain (Q849424) or using commanded by (P4791) as described above? The first option would also allow other crew members to be modelled such as First Mate etc. --Hannes Röst (talk) 14:43, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose: I also think that P4791 would suffice. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 17:58, 18 November 2020 (UTC).
- @Nortix08: how should we resolve the overlap for military ships? Given the samples above, I suppose this should be used instead for P4791.
- As to the use of P4791, I'm not really convinced that assimilating non-naval ships to the military is a good idea. Similar to business enterprises, a separate property seems preferable. --- Jura 20:24, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Not quite sure. Are non military ships commanded in a way the term commanded by (P4791) suggests it? Introducing this property for the use with any civilian ship, wether it'll be a merchant, trawler or cruise ship is possibly the best way to do it. Nortix08 (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Nortix08: maybe @Nomen ad hoc, Tinker Bell: want to elaborate? --- Jura 20:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Simply agree with Nortix. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC).
- I think having one property for "captain of a civilian ship" and one for "captain of a military ship" is going to be very confusing - some ships will be both at different times in their career, so will need to use both properties, and some like Queen Anne's Revenge (Q247567) or USAHS Marigold (Q7865742) do not fall neatly into a "military vs civilian" divide. It will be less confusing to say either a) use commanded by (P4791) for all ships, military & civilian (no new property needed); or b) use this new property for all ships, and keep commanded by (P4791) for military units & formations. It will be a lot easier for us to be consistent that way. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I simply think P4791 can cover all of these cases, not just military ships. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:15, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- "simply" doesn't really tell us much. Civilian ships are not military units and a ship's captain is a specific function, similar to a chief executive officer (P169) or captain (P634) for similar roles that may be called differently or the same. --- Jura 02:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
- I simply think P4791 can cover all of these cases, not just military ships. --Tinker Bell ★ ♥ 23:15, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think having one property for "captain of a civilian ship" and one for "captain of a military ship" is going to be very confusing - some ships will be both at different times in their career, so will need to use both properties, and some like Queen Anne's Revenge (Q247567) or USAHS Marigold (Q7865742) do not fall neatly into a "military vs civilian" divide. It will be less confusing to say either a) use commanded by (P4791) for all ships, military & civilian (no new property needed); or b) use this new property for all ships, and keep commanded by (P4791) for military units & formations. It will be a lot easier for us to be consistent that way. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Simply agree with Nortix. Nomen ad hoc (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC).
- @Nortix08: maybe @Nomen ad hoc, Tinker Bell: want to elaborate? --- Jura 20:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Not quite sure. Are non military ships commanded in a way the term commanded by (P4791) suggests it? Introducing this property for the use with any civilian ship, wether it'll be a merchant, trawler or cruise ship is possibly the best way to do it. Nortix08 (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- As to the use of P4791, I'm not really convinced that assimilating non-naval ships to the military is a good idea. Similar to business enterprises, a separate property seems preferable. --- Jura 20:24, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Nortix08: given the additional comments, what's your preference of naval ships? --- Jura 10:46, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- To keep it as simple as possible we should keep commanded by (P4791) for both, naval and merchant ships. When adding a description to cover them both it should be fine. Nortix08 (talk) 11:37, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- @Nortix08: I see. Personally, I'm not really in favor assimilating civilian ships with military units. Of course, if other contributors add data, all the better. --- Jura 11:59, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- AsAndrew Gray mentionend: If there is a ship transferred from a merchant to a naval ship it'll be very difficult to handle it. Disregard my first vote and now count me in for Oppose Nortix08 (talk) 12:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Also bear in mind ships like Canberra (Q1032840) who served as a navy/government troop transporter during the Falklands war The next day, her captain Dennis Scott-Masson received a message asking his time of arrival at Gibraltar, which was not on his itinerary. When he called at Gibraltar, he learnt that the Ministry of Defence had requisitioned Canberra for use as a troopship. Canberra sailed to Southampton, Hampshire where she was quickly refitted, sailing on 9 April for the South Atlantic. There is also [[1]] merchant navy (Q865132), showing the use of civilian as naval ships. Pmt (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- The question is if there is any added value in including it in the other property or if a separate property would make handling its content easier. --- Jura 17:52, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Skipsrevyen IDEdit
Description | ID to identify article about the ship at www.skipsrevyen.no |
---|---|
Represents | Q100276752 |
Data type | External identifier |
Domain | ship (Q11446) |
Example 1 | Ro Server (Q57312800) → m-s-ro-server |
Example 2 | Fjorddrott (Q52513048) → m-s-fjorddrott |
Example 3 | Normand Ferking (Q52512784) → m-s-normand-ferking |
Example 4 | Skandi Mongstad (Q50139355) → m-s-skandi-mongstad |
Planned use | Ship items with article at Skipsrevyen |
Number of IDs in source | 2000 |
Expected completeness | always incomplete (Q21873886) |
Formatter URL | https://www.skipsrevyen.no/batomtaler/$1/ |
Wikidata project | Notified participants of WikiProject Ships |
MotivationEdit
The website www.skipsrevyen.no contains more than 2000 articles about Norwegian ships. If this is property is added, these links could be fetched automatically from Wikidata. Cavernia (talk) 20:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
RailwayEdit
- see also: WikiProject Railways
preceding halt on serviceEdit
Description | (qualifier) halt prior to this one at which the service stops |
---|---|
Data type | Item |
Domain | railway halt (Q55678) and subclasses |
Example 1 | (Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) connecting service (P1192) Q12413177) → Howrah Junction railway station (Q986105) |
Example 2 | (Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) connecting service (P1192) Q12413178) → Panagarh railway station (Q59912754) |
Example 3 | (Bandel Junction railway station (Q4854508) connecting service (P1192) Q12415389) → Howrah Junction railway station (Q986105) |
Example 4 | (Bandel Junction railway station (Q4854508) connecting service (P1192) Q12415391) → Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) |
Planned use | add to items for rail stations as part of an overall augmentation of information about Indian train services |
Number of IDs in source | ??? |
Expected completeness | eventually complete (Q21873974) |
See also | adjacent station (P197) (for physical trackage), follows (P155)/followed by (P156) (for other orderings) |
succeeding halt on serviceEdit
Description | (qualifier) halt immediately following this one at which the service stops |
---|---|
Data type | Item |
Domain | railway halt (Q55678) and subclasses |
Example 1 | (Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) connecting service (P1192) Q12413177) → Panagarh railway station (Q59912754) |
Example 2 | (Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) connecting service (P1192) Q12413178) → Howrah Junction railway station (Q986105) |
Example 3 | (Bandel Junction railway station (Q4854508) connecting service (P1192) Q12415389) → Barddhaman Junction railway station (Q15196704) |
Example 4 | (Bandel Junction railway station (Q4854508) connecting service (P1192) Q12415391) → Howrah Junction railway station (Q986105) |
Planned use | add to items for rail stations as part of an overall augmentation of information about Indian train services |
Number of IDs in source | ??? |
Expected completeness | eventually complete (Q21873974) |
See also | adjacent station (P197) (for physical trackage), follows (P155)/followed by (P156) (for other orderings) |
MotivationEdit
There has been a lot of discussion, to no end conclusion, on the WikiProject Railways talk page regarding what to do to represent stations through which services pass that only operate in one direction, or what to do to reliably distinguish connections between stations that are physical or that are service-based. This proposal is an attempt to address both of these (at least in part):
- This would be used on a station item to indicate a service pattern where stations are skipped (e.g. the 7 and <7> services of the New York City Subway will have different qualifiers at e.g. 61st Street – Woodside (Q2611963)) or where service is unidirectional (e.g. at Heathrow Terminal 4 tube station (Q1592614)) or where there are asymmetries in a service between the two directions it operates (e.g. Mumbai Pune Intercity Express (Q17075439)'s P527 values at Shivajinagar railway station (Q14475834)).
- Using these would keep P197/P81 for use entirely with physical connections between stations sharing a line (exclusively for which to my knowledge they were proposed to be used); the continued mixed use of these properties for both physical lines and functional services will inevitably cause organizational difficulties, particularly when it comes to the presence of incomplete data about either of these things on a large portion of items (as is present on stations along e.g. the Northeast Corridor (Q678233) and the Illinois Central Railroad (Q1093332), or with parts of the Chicago 'L' (Q820880) and the New York City Subway (Q7733)).
- Using these as qualifiers would make the succession of stations on a service in a given direction unambiguously clear, as the use of properties such as follows (P155)/followed by (P156) do not by themselves distinguish clearly that the order in which stations are being served is the 'series' of which the subject station is a part (as e.g. added to Durgapur railway station (Q15215453) and the stations served by the Agniveena Express (Q18109414), or as added to Rokugō Station (Q11392606) and other stations on the Iburi Line (Q1028403)).
Since this overall problem has been approached numerous times before without a resolution, I humbly request that this proposal not be closed/withdrawn without coming to a consensus on how to reliably distinguishably represent this information. I am happy to make significant changes to this proposal if it helps meet this goal. Mahir256 (talk) 05:29, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
- Mmmh. What's the use for this modeling? What happens with branches like Brétigny (Paris RER) (Q2209526) >> Marolles-en-Hurepoix (Paris RER) (Q1863955) and Brétigny (Paris RER) (Q2209526) >> Gare de La Norville - Saint-Germain-lès-Arpajon (Q1854741) ? What happens when there might be services stopping and services not stopping? Eg Gare de Juvisy (Q628695) having trains either Bibliothèque François Mitterrand Station (Q2856214) or gare d'Athis-Mons (Q2199402) or gare de Vigneux-sur-Seine (Q2703407) or Gare de Grigny-Centre (Q3096584) depending on what the train does and which line it is. I would rather prefer using a new item ligne du RER C with a property stating
- stop (rank 1st ): that station
- stop (rank 2nd) : that other station
- etc.
- Plus I didn't get why adjacent station (P197) is not useful for you Bouzinac (talk) 06:22, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Bouzinac: I can't speak to the validity of your RER example as it appears that each of the lines in the RER has, for the most part, its own set of dedicated tracks, for which highlighting the distinction between 'lines' and 'services' may be less important (similarly to how such a distinction is less relevant for, say, many metro systems—New York City and Chicago being among a number of exceptions). As for your question on P197, please re-read my second bullet point above. Mahir256 (talk) 14:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
- Question - On the London Underground, there is no distinction between services and lines. Many lines split in two, but are considered the same service. Could the above still be successfully applied here? --IWI (talk) 00:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Engineer's Line ReferenceEdit
Description | code for a railway line in Britain owned by Network Rail |
---|---|
Represents | Engineer's line reference (Q5377931) |
Data type | String |
Template parameter | elr in Template:Infobox rail line (en) |
Allowed values | [A-Z]{3}[1-9]? |
Example 1 | Ashford to Ramsgate line (Q4805019) → ACR |
Example 2 | Catford Loop Line (Q5051993) → CAT |
Example 3 | Waterloo–Reading line (Q6265162) → RDG1 applies to part (P518) Waterloo–Wokingham Jn → RDG2 applies to part (P518) Wokingham Jn–Reading |
Source | en:Engineer's Line Reference |
Expected completeness | eventually complete (Q21873974) |
MotivationEdit
The ELR is a widely used code to identify railway lines in the UK.--PhiH (talk) 11:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
- Comment if it's a unique reference, I think datatype should be external-id, not string. --- Jura 20:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Road transportEdit
Operator license numberEdit
Description | UK Traffic Commissioners' license number |
---|---|
Data type | External identifier |
Template parameter | Operator license number |
Domain | UK bus and HGV operators |
Allowed values | Two letters, followed by 7 numbers |
Example 1 | Streamline (Q98456343) → PB1100689 |
Example 2 | Connexionsbuses (Q5161805) → PB1003659 |
Example 3 | Trent Barton (Q7838363) → PB0002711 and PC0001135 and PB0002186 (this is quite an unusual case) |
Source | https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-lorry-bus-operators/ and https://data.gov.uk/dataset/2a67d1ee-8f1b-43a3-8bc6-e8772d162a3c/traffic-commissioners-goods-and-public-service-vehicle-operator-licence-records |
Planned use | To identify bus and HGV operators |
Number of IDs in source | ??? |
Expected completeness | eventually complete (Q21873974) |
MotivationEdit
This is used as the primary key for UK bus and HGV operators, and would be useful to have as an identifier here, especially sole traders where a companies house id is unavailable. Alex Noble (talk) 11:06, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
DiscussionEdit
- Comment Would you add somewhere in label or description that this is for the UK? Also, as it seems to be a unique identifier, I think it should have "external-id" datatype, not "monolingual text" as currently. 20:02, 20 August 2020 (UTC)--- Jura
- I've added UK to the description. Alex Noble (talk) 10:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Point in line / through pointEdit
Represents | through station (Q55490) |
---|---|
Data type | Item |
Domain | line construction (Q1826691) |
Example 1 | I/19 road (Q3499087) through point Žďákov Bridge (Q770940) in linear reference (P6710) 62.113 kilometre (Q828224) |
Example 2 | D1 motorway (Q530229) through point 1Q900753 in linear reference (P6710) 194.033 kilometre (Q828224) |
Example 3 | U.S. Route 66 in New Mexico (Q981907) through point New Mexico State Road 47 (Q2250416) in linear reference (P6710) 249 kilometre (Q828224) |
Source | maps of road networks |
Planned use | Detailed description of road network |
See also | located on linear feature (P795) |
MotivationEdit
Every route can be decribed e.g.
- terminus (P559): Road 1
- terminus location (P609): Town 1
- linear reference (P6710): 0,00 km
- Through point: Town2
- linear reference (P6710):1,23 km
- Through point: Road 2
- linear reference (P6710): 4,56 km
- Through point: Town 3, Road 3
- linear reference (P6710): 7,89 km
- terminus location (P609): Town 4
- linear reference (P6710): 10,00 km
This property is for describing through points, inverse for located on linear feature (P795). JAn Dudík (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Notified participants of WikiProject Roads
DiscussionEdit
- Hi, do you mean that any road would have every crossed town? Wouldn't it mean that for a lenghty road, it would perhaps mean thousands of statements inside the road ? Bouzinac 💬●✒️●💛 08:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- I want to use it mainly for Czech roads, is possible to describe every crossing with other roads, see eg. cs:Silnice II/114.
- It depends on road, main use is for junctions, big bridges or other main features. JAn Dudík (talk) 11:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Isn't this what via (P2825) is for? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:43, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- As far as I understand it, via (P2825) is for trips or journeys that happened once, not for a regular service (Q1067164).--Geogast (talk) 13:09, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
Wheeled vehicleEdit
IntersectionEdit
SpaceflightEdit
- Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Space for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Space}}