Wikidata:Property proposal/axe

die axis edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Done: die axis (P8751) (Talk and documentation)

Description	measurement of a coin that describes how the obverse and reverse dies were aligned to each other when it was struck, either in degrees (0-360) or hours (0-12)
Represents	coin orientation (Q5141550)
Data type	Quantity
Domain	coin (Q41207)
Allowed units	heure (hour) or degré (degree)
Example 1	Musée Saint-Raymond, 2000 15 129 (Q29401431): no description → 12 h [1]
Example 2	Musée Saint-Raymond, 2000 14 51 (Q28822821): no description → 3 h [2]
Example 3	??? (creation in progress) → 12 h [3]
See also	medal alignment (Q23017424): alignment of a coin, such that the obverse and reverse both have their top at the same point coin alignment (Q23017425): alignment of a coin, such that the obverse and reverse have their tops at opposite points

Motivation edit

The die-axis (alias coin axis, coin alignment or coin orientation), axe in French, is a type of measurement used by numismatists and museums to describe coins in professional publications and databases.Die alignment is expressed in degrees or in hours (as a clock face hour). Some publications use arrows to describe die alignment. Christelle Molinié (talk) 12:08, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment I found Q5141550 ("coin orientation") and added that above. Also, I tried to complete the proposal, fix the samples. Maybe coin alignment (Q23017425) and medal alignment (Q23017424) could have the property too. --- Jura 13:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To what extend is this property special for coins? Can we find a more general way to specify the relationship that can also be hold outside of the domain of coins? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 17:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I asked the question to a numismatist of the french national library who doesn't know other uses in different fields. As a reference he gave us the link to the Nomisma ID http://nomisma.org/id/axis. This can be helpful. --Christelle Molinié (talk) 12:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I know nothing about this and have never thought about it before, but it makes sense. Can someone show more sources which report this value? Right now the three examples are from toulouse.fr, which seems to be the government website for Toulouse (Q7880). For me to be more certain that reporting axe is customary, could someone show any museum or numismatic website listing which reports this value? Also, could someone fill out more of the proposal form, including "planned use" to communicate which collections could soon be annotated and "number of ids" to say something about the number of coins for which this data gets reported. I do not understand whether this is something that always gets reported in coin evaluation, or if it happens only in a small percentage of instances. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some examples from the collection of the American Numismatic society, The collection Calvet and another one in Commons. It is not always reported in coins description but it is used enough to be a research field in the American Numismatic Society database. --Christelle Molinié (talk) 16:25, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support --- Jura 09:37, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support as a member of Wikidata:WikiProject Numismatics Pmt (talk) 04:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's unclear to me which items are supposed to be used as units. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 18:16, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @ChristianKl: same as on Q23017425#P1181? @Pmt, Christelle Molinié: what do you think? --- Jura 06:24, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - @ChristianKl: Would it no be like the adverse will be at 12 o'clock or 0 degrees while the reverse will be at for exanmaybe 2 o'cl or for example 270 degrees relavtive to the adverse?. Pmt (talk) 08:29, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Jura1: Acceptable. Handmade coins will always have this possibility as the coining dies coould be rotated relativly to each other. Cold also be used for cuontermarks on the coin. The term is btw within this scope http://data.ub.uio.no/skosmos/humord/nb/page/?clang=en&uri=c04647 Pmt (talk) 08:29, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think the property would mainly be interesting when it's not be the standard axis for the currency and/or a currency without a standard. --- Jura 08:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support @ Jura1, ChristianKl: I just came to the Property Proposal page to propose this-- many galleries use this property in their descriptions of coins, especially ancient coins. It is a useful measurement to distinguish different kinds of coin minting (Athenian vs. Roman) and to identify forgeries. This is a unique property special to coins because it specifically measures the alignment of the obverse to the reverse of a coin, rather than just any form of angular alignment. I would like to use this property to upload a number of items, see for example [here] where 7:00 represents an alignment. Valeriummaximum (talk) 15:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support @ Jura1, ChristianKl, Valeriummaximum: I second Valeriummaximum's comments above. In fact, we are working on a WD project for which this Property would be immediately useful. Currently there is no adequate property to capture this specific data. Ahc84 (talk) 18:04, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Christelle Molinié, Jura1, ChristianKl, Bluerasberry, Pmt, Valeriummaximum:

Done die axis (P8751) Pamputt (talk) 09:36, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good news, thanks a lot Pamputt ! --Christelle Molinié (talk) 07:38, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- 🐭🎈🍰 Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:17, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]