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Wikidata:Property proposal/compound of

compound ofEdit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes

   Done: combines (P5238) (Talk and documentation)
Descriptionlexemes combined in this compound lexeme
Representscompounding (Q29445010)
Data typeLexeme
Domainlexeme
Exampleen:flowerpot -> en:flower, en:pot
en:metadata -> en:meta, en:data
Sourceetymological dictionaries and research
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)

Motivation

This could be done with derived from (P5191), but it does seem to have a different meaning (a word can derive from more than one previous word without it actually being a compound which includes both of them). Reosarevok (talk) 20:38, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support as a German speaker, I really want to be able to indicate what Donau­dampf­schiffahrts­elektrizitäten­haupt­betriebs­werk­bau­unter­beamten­gesellschaft is composed of. derived from (P5191) is too generic - I suppose "compound of" could be considered to be a sub-property of "derived from". -- Duesentrieb (talk) 12:08, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
  Support ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:17, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
  Comment I would like to have a way to indicate linking elements (e.g., s in Elektrizitätswerk). -- IvanP (talk) 09:07, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  Support This property will be very useful to describe Japanese compounds words. --Okkn (talk) 10:41, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support derivation and composition is two different things (the later being a subclass of the first? it seems correct but to be checked, Duesentrieb do you have a reference for that.). The exemple for derived from (P5191) "en:etymology -> grc:ἔτυμον, grc:-λογία" is actually a composition and should be replace to en:etymology -> enm:ethimologie (and enm:ethimologie -> la:etymologia, la:etymologia -> grc:ἔτυμονλογία and so on) and meanwhile, this composition is true: en:etymology -> etymo- + -logy (or etym- + o- + -logy? see question of IvanP). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 11:30, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support with use of mandatory qualifier series ordinal (P1545). Dhx1 (talk) 12:39, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support -- JakobVoss (talk) 19:55, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Support This will also be useful for Danish. I suppose that the series ordinal (P1545) property should be used as a qualifier. One issue though is that it will not be able to specific details around compounding. In Danish, we sometimes add an "s" in between compound parts, e.g., in the triple compound "restance|inddrivelse|s|myndigheden", there is no added s between the first two parts but an "s" added between the second and third parts. And BTW, I have a short Danish list here: https://github.com/fnielsen/dasem/blob/master/dasem/data/compounds.txtFinn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 14:50, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
    • @IvanP, Fnielsen: I agree it might be interesting to add further nuance to this, if we have a good idea about how. I guess such infix-like letters wouldn't be considered lexemes in their own right? Another possibly interesting option would be to allow for *forms* to be used here - for example, in the Estonian "vihmavari" ("umbrella"), "vihma-" is the genitive singular for "rain", while "vari" is the nominative singular for "shadow" or "cover". But in the Estonian "nokkloom" ("platypus"), "nokk" ("beak") and "loom" ("animal") are both nominative singular forms. This might be overkill for many languages, though. --Reosarevok (talk) 16:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Comment As to considering it to be a sub-property of “derived from”, note that composition is distinct from derivation in the linguistic sense. In the German Wiktionary, “Abgeleitete Begriffe:” (meaning “Derived terms:”) has been replaced by “Wortbildungen:” (meaning “Word formations:”), cf. voting. derived from (P5191) is not even just about word formation; consider replacing the label “derived from” by “originating in”. As to etymo- vs. etym- + -o-, I would say the first one. Elektrizität in Elektrizitätswerk is a word in its own right (which does not have a form Elektrizitäts, by the way), etym(o)- is a combining form; I guess etym- and etymo- can be seen as allomorphs. -- IvanP (talk) 06:56, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Comment Instead of creating properties for each possible way words can derive from each other, a qualifier property “kind of derivation” (or whatever) with various item values might be more flexible…? --Lucas Werkmeister (talk) 15:57, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
  •   Done
    --- Jura 15:09, 2 June 2018 (UTC)