Wikidata:Property proposal/nerve origin

nerve origin edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Not done

Description	Anatomical structure, where a nerve begins. For a cranial nerve, it would be a nucleus. For a peripheral nerve, it would be a spinal cord segment. For a branch of peripheral nerve, it would be its trunk.
Represents	nerve (Q9620)
Data type	Item
Template parameter	"BranchFrom" in en:template:Template:Infobox nerve
Example 1	vagus nerve (Q190140) → dorsal nucleus of vagus nerve (Q5298797)
Example 2	femoral nerve (Q545676) → L2 segment (Q66569020)
Example 3	posterior cutaneous nerve of arm (Q7234189) → radial nerve (Q1365325)
Planned use	classify nerve origins for subclass of nerve (Q9620) (wikidata query)

Motivation edit

To be able to do anatomical searches. For example to list affected muscles in spinal cord lesions and in nerve lesions. Pavel Dusek (talk) 09:36, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Comment @Pavel Dusek: I thought we already had a property very similar to this but more general. There are a number that seem very close - for example presynaptic connection (P925) and postsynaptic connection (P926) which should at least be referenced via "see also". More generally there's connects with (P2789). There's innervates (P3190). I see we have a very close property for muscles in muscle origin (P3490). So maybe this is needed... Might want to do a bit more searching among existing properties first though? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:26, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @ArthurPSmith: There are different levels to the problem:

Microscopic level: there are usualy different categories of fibers in a single nerve – sensory fibers, motor fibers, autonomic fibers. Each category of fibers usually has different properties presynaptic connection (P925) and postsynaptic connection (P926). E.g. sensory fibers from ulnar nerve (Q254580) pass through C8 segment (Q66569018) and T1 segment (Q66558722) on macroscopic level, but don't do any connection there on microscopic level. So properties presynaptic connection (P925) and postsynaptic connection (P926) would not contain structural information, that the sensory fibers from ulnar nerve go through spinal segment C8 and T1. However, they should be filled in also to store information about functional connectivity. (For sensory fibers: presynaptic would be lamellar corpuscle (Q673321), postsynaptic would be cuneate nucleus (Q1517475) or cuneate nucleus (Q66571285) – which are probably a duplicity. For motor fibers, it would be presynaptic C8 segment (Q66569018) and T1 segment (Q66558722), postsynaptic several muscles, such as. flexor carpi ulnaris muscle (Q279039)).

Macroscopic level: properties connects with (P2789) and innervates (P3190) may be very useful. However, they do not store information about hierarchy and direction as muscle origin (P3490) does. So I could go with these, but new property muscle origin would bear additional useful information.

Thanks for pointing those properties out, they are very useful (for functional connectivity information etc) and I didn't know about them. Pavel Dusek (talk) 11:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

anatomical branch of (P3261) is the appropriate property to match "BranchFrom" in the infobox. If you want to know more about the properties we have for anatomy there's a box at the bottom of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Anatomy that lists related properties. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 15:07, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: Thank you, that's very useful. However, should this be the case also in stating that "femoral nerve begins in L2 to L4 segments of spinal cord"? That's not branch in its proper sense, it's rather the origin, anatomically speaking. What is the consensus? Thanks. Pavel Dusek (talk) 08:02, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Pavel Dusek: I would say that it does branch from L2 spinal nerve (Q46938168), L3 spinal nerve (Q46938171) and L4 spinal nerve (Q46938175). L2 spinal nerve (Q46938168) might have anatomical location (P927) L2 segment (Q66569020). It's worth noting that we also have segmental innervation (P4882) if there's a nerve between the spinal cord and the nerve you are caring about.

Obviously, the work have have done on the nerves is far from complete. If you have a good argument for listing the nerve origin in addition to the branch I'm happy to hear it.ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose See above. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 07:40, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Pavel Dusek, ArthurPSmith: Not done No support, stale and it seems ther's no interest anyone in it. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 22:44, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]