Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/number of island platforms

< Wikidata:Property proposal

number of island platforms / number of side platforms edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Transportation

   Withdrawn
Descriptionnumber of island platforms
Representsisland platform (Q2725290)
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Template parameter"岛式站台" in w:zh:Template:Infobox China railway station (and possibly others)
Domainstation (Q719456)
Allowed unitsno unit
ExampleCentral Station (Q15166) → 1
See alsonumber of platform tracks (P1103)

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Transportation

   Withdrawn
Descriptionnumber of side platforms
Representsside platform (Q2735706)
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Template parameter"侧式站台" in w:zh:Template:Infobox China railway station (and possibly others)
Domainstation (Q719456)
Allowed unitsno unit
ExampleCentral Station (Q15166) → 2
See alsonumber of platform tracks (P1103)
Motivation

there isn't a property for this yet? Jc86035 (talk) 11:03, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion
  •   Support this and the others - seems useful to describe any railway station. However, I wonder how you handle a subway station that has several levels? I guess a qualifier with the floor might do it? ArthurPSmith (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Question How will we deal with cases where a platform can be an island in one part of the train station and a side platform in another part of the station? For example look at [1]. In that station there is an island platform between track 3 and 4 and an island platform between track 30 and 4 but between the heads of track 3 and 30 the same platforms turns into a side platform. --Pasleim (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment Can you not just use the has part(s) (P527) property with the quantity (P1114) qualifier, i.e. has part(s) (P527) = island platform (Q2725290). Danrok (talk) 15:14, 7 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Oppose Use 'has part'. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:50, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is this defining the number of platforms? Numbered platforms, platform faces, etc? See File:How many platforms.svg. Are you planning a third property for bay platforms? Thryduulf (talk) 09:09, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Thryduulf: The current property is supposed to be for platform tracks (i.e. no. of tracks adjacent to a platform face). The below property would be for platform faces (i.e. number of platform faces adjacent to tracks). I haven't made one yet for bay platforms (mainly since I'm not entirely sure how they're defined and whether they should also be counted as side platforms). Jc86035 (talk) 13:59, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Thryduulf: Looking at the image, we might need several more properties (number of designated platform faces, number of independently signalable platforms, …?) but those probably need another property proposal. Jc86035 (talk) 06:08, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't know how many properties are needed, but what is needed is absolute clarity about what a source is counting when it says a station has n platforms. e.g. and might be counting different things.
        Bristol Temple Meads has 1 bay platform (number 1), 1 side platform (numbers 3 and 4), and 2 island platforms with 2 numbers per face (5, 6 / 7, 8 and 9, 10 / 11, 12) and one island platform with one platform number per face (13 / 15) (although designed as a through road, platform 13 is not accessible from the south in the current layout). Platform 2 and the adjacent un-numbered former parcels platform are not used for passenger trains [2]. Depending how you count the station has 4 (3 islands and a side platform with bays), 8 (lines adjacent to passenger platforms), 10 (lines adjacent to platforms, whether in passenger use or not), 13 (independently signallable passenger platforms; platform numbers in use) or 15 (total independently signallable platforms).
        Reading has 6 bay platforms (numbers 1-6), 1 side platform (platform numbers 7a and 7b) and 4 islands, each with one number with a and b portions per face (platform numbers 8a, 8b / 9a, 9b and 10a, 10b / 11a, 11b and 12a, 12b / 13a, 13b and 14a, 14b / 15a, 15b).[3] Depending on the count therefore it has 5 (4 islands + a side platform with bays) 15 (lines adjacent to platforms; platform numbers in use) or 24 (independently signallable platforms).
        Barking station (Q800451) doesn't have a number of platform tracks (P1103) statement currently, but it has an even more complicated layout [4]. There are 4 islands, the first as two faces each with 1 number (1 / 1a)(platform 1 is not accessible from the east so some sources will call it a bay), the next is L-shaped with faces for platforms (2 / 4 at the east end, but 3 /4 at the west; platform 3 being a bay). The other two islands have one number per face each (5 / 6 and 7 / 8). Platforms 1a and 2 are served by the same track (train doors open on both sides). Platforms 1a/2, 3 and 6 are used by London Underground services only. So it has 4 (islands), 5 (4 islands + 1 bay; platforms used by mainline trains), 8 (lines adjacent to platforms; independently signallable platforms) or 9 (platforms adjacent to tracks; platform numbers in use).
        At Greenford station (Q800841) there is one island platform with a central bay [5]. The outside faces have one platform number each (1 / 3) and are used exclusively by London Underground. The bay platform has a platform on both sides of the train but one number (2), currently the doors only open on the north side of the train (due to rolling stock limitations, not station infrastructure limitations, so future trains may be able to use both sides). It therefore has 1 (island), 2 (island + bay), 3 (platform numbers in use; independently signallable platforms; tracks adjacent to platforms) or 4 (platforms adjacent to tracks) platforms.
        At Tower Gateway (Q1702680) there is a single track with platforms on both sides [6], each side has a number (1 and 2, see File:Tower Gateway DLR stn departure platform look east.JPG) and doors open on both sides. One platform is used for departing passengers, the other for arriving passengers. It has 1 (independently signallable platform; track adjacent to platform) or 2 (platforms adjacent to tracks; side platforms; platform numbers in use) platforms. There are likely other complicated layouts I'm not immediately thinking of as well. Thryduulf (talk) 10:55, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        @Thryduulf: The biggest problem with the current property is that half the labels say "number of platforms" and half of the labels say "number of platform tracks". The English and British English labels were different for at least a year. A lot of the values greater than 2 probably need to be rechecked manually, and the labels obviously need to be fixed.
        Having the eight different properties (number of platform surfaces, number of island platforms, number of side platforms, number of bay platforms, number of platform faces, number of platform tracks, number of platform identifiers, number of independently signallable platforms) is probably enough. I think. Or we could use "has part" for all of them and make it even more confusing. Jc86035 (talk) 11:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        I think it would be worth pausing this request and having a comprehensive review of how the number of (types of) platforms is represented here and in different ontologies, and how to make the labels clear, unambiguous and consistent. "Number of island platforms" and "Number of platform islands" are possibly different for example - Queens Road Peckham railway station (Q1897912) unambiguously has 1 platform island, but does it have 1 or 2 island platforms? Will any distinction survive translation? Thryduulf (talk) 21:52, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        @Thryduulf: I think it's relatively unambiguous that Queens Road Peckham has one island platform and two platform faces on that island platform, but I agree that it's worth making another proposal (maybe after discussion at w:en:WT:RAIL / w:en:WT:UKRAIL?). I'll withdraw these. Jc86035 (talk) 04:16, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        @Jc86035: It's worth ensuring that it's not just relatively unambiguous but completely so I think. Please ping me when you start the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 10:59, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

number of platform faces edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Transportation

   Withdrawn
Descriptionnumber of platform faces
Data typeNumber (not available yet)
Template parameter"platforms" in w:en:Template:Infobox station; "站台面" in w:zh:Template:Infobox China railway station (and possibly others)
Domainstation (Q719456)
Allowed unitsno unit
ExampleCentral Station (Q15166) → 4
See alsonumber of platform tracks (P1103)
Motivation

there isn't a property for this yet? Jc86035 (talk) 11:03, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion
  Question What is the difference between this proposed property and number of platform tracks (P1103)? --Pasleim (talk) 17:04, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Pasleim: Take for example a station with two island platforms, four platform faces and three tracks (with both island platforms sharing a track between them), like Choi Hung station (Q837691) (see enwiki or zhwiki for diagram). This would have number of platform tracks (P1103) → 4 but [number of platform tracks] → 3. See also Spanish solution (Q1342434). Jc86035 (talk) 12:17, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see, but then the label of this propsed property or the label of number of platform tracks (P1103) should be changed. Two properties with the same label but different meaning aren't possible. --Pasleim (talk) 14:15, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Pasleim: Whoops, I don't think I noticed that because the property name in British English is "number of platforms" [i.e. number of platform faces]. As far as I can tell, more than half of the language labels for the existing property are "number of platforms", whereas some of them have since been changed to "number of platform tracks" per the talk page discussion. This probably means that depending on which language editors have the interface in, different values would be added. (There are not that many stations where this would be the case, but it's still a problem.) Jc86035 (talk) 15:32, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  Oppose Per above, this property is already existing, you might want to request another property for the number of physical platforms. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:01, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226, Pasleim: Updated the proposal to be for number of platform faces; Property talk:P1103 should be updated because it still refers to "number of platforms".did not realize data was taken from en-gb labels Jc86035 (talk) 08:14, 4 February 2017 (UTC) Jc86035 (talk) 14:54, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So I changed to   Support, thx for patches of properties. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jc86035: However, I'm afraid that I already typed the values of "站台面" as P1103 value, so am I wrong now? Should I use "站台数目" instead now? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:51, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226: I think so, yes. Jc86035 (talk) 08:17, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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