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Wikidata:Requests for comment/make "developer" and "programmer" properties clearer

An editor has requested the community to provide input on "make "developer" and "programmer" properties clearer" via the Requests for comment (RFC) process. This is the discussion page regarding the issue.

If you have an opinion regarding this issue, feel free to comment below. Thank you!

Contents

Request for commentEdit

developer (P178) has two issues:

  • is it limited to software?
If so, what's the purpose of programmer (P943)?
Otherwise, why his subject items are "software developer" and "software house" and why it's an instance of Wikidata property for software (Q21126229);
  • is it limited to creators?
If so, why not renaming it to something like "software creator", given that a developer can be also the current maintainer of a software?
Otherwise, why is it a subproperty of creator (P170)?--Malore (talk) 15:12, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

  • You should probably ping the people of the most relevant project:

Tobias1984
Emw
Zuphilip
Danrok
Bene*
콩가루
TomT0m
DrSauron
Ruud Koot
Andreasburmeister
Ilya
Toto256
MichaelSchoenitzer
Metamorforme42
Pixeldomain
User:YULdigitalpreservation
Dipsode87
Pintoch
Daniel Mietchen
Jsamwrites
Tinker Bell
FabC
Jasc PL
putnik
Dhx1
Tris T7
Peb Aryan
lore.mazza004
Rc1959
Premeditated
  Notified participants of WikiProject Informatics -- MichaelSchoenitzer (talk) 13:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

  • programmer (P943) is a subproperty of developer (P178) and should be used when we know the name of the programmer who wrote the software. developer (P178) is more general and can be used when we know only the name of the organization and not the individual contributors (despite considering its current usage). Personally, I would distinguish between programmers and maintainers. However, distinguishing developers and programmers is difficult. John Samuel 14:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Programming is just one part of the software development process. A software developer (person) is not necessarily a programmer, or vice versa. In the same way a property developer is not always a hands-on builder. Danrok (talk) 17:03, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

ProposalEdit

--Micru (talk) 21:46, 24 August 2014 (UTC) Tobias1984 (talk) TomT0m (talk) Genewiki123 (talk) Emw (talk) 03:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC) —Ruud 16:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC) Emitraka (talk) 14:32, 14 October 2015 (UTC) Bovlb (talk) 19:10, 21 October 2015 (UTC) Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 22:21, 23 October 2015 (UTC) ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:51, 5 November 2015 (UTC) --Daniel Mietchen (talk) 20:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC) --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2016 (UTC) --Lechatpito (talk) --Andrawaag (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC) --ChristianKl (talk) 16:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC) --Cmungall Cmungall (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2016 (UTC) Cord Wiljes (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2016 (UTC) DavRosen (talk) 23:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC) Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 07:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC) Pintoch (talk) 22:42, 5 March 2017 (UTC) Fuzheado (talk) 14:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC) YULdigitalpreservation (talk) 14:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC) PKM (talk) 00:24, 17 June 2017 (UTC) Fractaler (talk) 14:42, 17 June 2017 (UTC) Andreasmperu Diana de la Iglesia Jsamwrites (talk) Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 12:39, 24 August 2017 (UTC) Alessandro Piscopo (talk) 17:02, 4 September 2017 (UTC) Ptolusque (.-- .. -.- ..) 01:47, 14 September 2017 (UTC) Gamaliel (talk) --Horcrux92 (talk) 11:19, 12 November 2017 (UTC) MartinPoulter (talk) Bamyers99 (talk) 16:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC) Malore (talk) Wurstbruch (talk) 22:59, 4 April 2018 (UTC) Dcflyer (talk) 07:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC) Ettorerizza (talk) 11:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC) Ninokeys (talk) 00:05, 5 October 2018 (UTC) Buccalon (talk) 14:08, 10 October 2018 (UTC) Jneubert (talk) 06:02, 21 October 2018 (UTC) Yair rand (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2018 (UTC) Tris T7 (talk) ElanHR (talk) 22:05, 26 December 2018 (UTC) linuxo Gq86 Gabrielaltay Liamjamesperritt (talk) 08:44, 21 June 2019 (UTC) ZI Jony Ivanhercaz (Talk) 11:07, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

  Notified participants of WikiProject Ontology
If no one opposes, I'm going to:

--Malore (talk) 16:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

How is this currently being used?Edit

I don't see any information on how this property is currently being used. If there is significant use of the property for something other than software developer then that use of the property should be respected. I view the underlying problem here as insufficient guidance as to the intended meaning of this property. There should have been a description of what this property is for that makes its intended meaning clear. This is not an isolated case---lack of clarity as to intended meaning is endemic in Wikidata. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 16:37, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I created this discussion exactly for the lack of clarity in the description. However, you're right. The property is currently used 29000 times and only about 350 times the item is a software. I assume the property is for everything that can be developed, but not for buildings (there are architect (P84), structural engineer (P631) and manufacturer (P176).--Malore (talk) 23:22, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

What I think and what I've done so farEdit

What I thinkEdit

I came to the conclusion that developer (P178) refers to anything that can be developed, and programmer (P943) shouldn't be a subproperty of developer (P178) because a programmer/software developer isn't necessary a creator, but can also be a maintainer. Maybe we need a "software house" property where the software is developed by a company.--Malore (talk) 00:37, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

What I've doneEdit

 – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Malore (talk • contribs).

Update: The property proposal was marked as "Not done" on June 15. --Yair rand (talk) 02:55, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Tobias1984
Emw
Zuphilip
Danrok
Bene*
콩가루
TomT0m
DrSauron
Ruud Koot
Andreasburmeister
Ilya
Toto256
MichaelSchoenitzer
Metamorforme42
Pixeldomain
User:YULdigitalpreservation
Dipsode87
Pintoch
Daniel Mietchen
Jsamwrites
Tinker Bell
FabC
Jasc PL
putnik
Dhx1
Tris T7
Peb Aryan
lore.mazza004
Rc1959
Premeditated
  Notified participants of WikiProject Informatics. The relevant Wikiproject is WikiProject Informatics. Please ping it when attempting to change the ontology that the project uses. There are multiple well-developed projects such as the one at the Yale public library that interact with the data about software and pinging the project is a way to notify the people for whom it's relevant. ChristianKl❫ 10:35, 27 May 2018 (UTC)