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Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/FischBot 2

< Wikidata:Requests for permissions‎ | Bot

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Approved. I have reapproved this task now as all questions raised up in the discussion are answered and the edits look good. The most critical point is probably Polarlys' question #3. But since FischBot will ignore these cases I don't see a problem there either. I suggest to let the bot run and if any problems occur, please open a new discussion here at WD:RFBOT. Regards, Vogone talk 17:47, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

FischBot 2 edit

FischBot (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
Operator: Pyfisch (talk • contribs • logs)

Task/s: Adding descriptions to Wikidata person items based on the param 'KURZBESCHREIBUNG' of the template 'Personendaten' on the German Wikipedia. (If community consensus: adding aliases)

Function details: See above. If possible: blanket approval for adding descriptions to items based on the description in the Persondata template, if the is consensus in the languages community. Question to the german community: WD:Forum#Beschreibungen bei Personen automatisch hinzufügen? (3x support, no opposes) --Pyfisch (talk) 18:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please do some test edits without running other tasks at the same time. --Ricordisamoa 20:00, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Will your bot alter existing descriptions? Have you talked to the people who maintain Template:Personendaten regarding similar initiatives and their thoughts about the future of this template and its coexistence with Wikidata? --Polarlys (talk) 21:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Descriptions are needed, KURZBESCHREIBUNG fits perfect as labels, I support this, even if it would alter existing ones. Future of PD isn't something Pyfisch has to solve.--CENNOXX (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why should the bot change existing descriptions? --Polarlys (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of KURZBESCHREIBUNG entries are far too detailed (and thus too long) or too generic („deutscher Adliger“). The template has been around for a long time and when we want substantial additions to Wikidata the bot owner should at least here some comments on his proposed bot run. Nobody is reading this here. --Polarlys (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Polarlys: Please write your comments on WD:Forum#Beschreibungen bei Personen automatisch hinzufügen? if you want that some people are reading them, I saw that you are a german native speaker.  Question Why is "deutscher Adliger" too generic? One of the examples for descriptions is "italienischer Fußballspieler". Can you please give some examples on to long "KURZBESCHREIBUNG" entries? (in the Forum, if possible).--Pyfisch (talk) 16:33, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Only a minority of de.wikipedia.org users is active on Commons and there are already discussions on using Vorlage:Personendaten for Wikidata (e.g. de:Hilfe_Diskussion:Personendaten). Most of the people familiar with the subject are pragmatic and full of thoughtful ideas. Please include them for maximal benefit and to avoid problems you might not think of at this point. While it is possible to have people with the same name and the same KURZBESCHREIBUNG using Vorlage:Personendaten, it is not possible to have entries with the same label and the same description on Wikidata. See e.g. de:Bernd Müller (Fußballspieler, 1963) and de:Bernd Müller (Fußballspieler, 1949) or de:Christian Müller (Fußballspieler, 1938), de:Christian Müller (Fußballspieler, 1983), de:Christian Müller (Fußballspieler, 1984). While some entries from de:Olearius have slightly different descriptions, others have not. But even the different descriptions are not enough to distinguish people e.g. when adding properties on Wikidata („deutscher evangelischer Theologe“ vs. „deutscher lutherischer Theologe“). When it comes to German nobility, we have entries like this: Q1345143 and Q1675766. Adding „deutscher Adliger“ according to KURZBESCHREIBUNG won’t help you to distinguish between all the entries e.g. on de:Heinrich II.. I strongly encourage a bot run on German descriptions in Wikidata, but it needs some preparations for cases like this (and a statement regarding manual additions where these descriptions have already carefully been set). I guess it affects some thousand entries. Best regards, --Polarlys (talk) 18:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
 Info Test edits made: View --Pyfisch (talk) 16:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I see the Diff (for example this) but I don't see the text in Q592211. Where is it? -- Stefan Kühn (talk) 08:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you have to set your language to "deutsch". Here I can see it. --Ricordisamoa 11:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Aha! Now it works. :-) --Stefan Kühn (talk) 21:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This bot will be approved in 24h unless there are objections.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There was one approval and one detailed objection. Pyfisch never answered my questions and I will ask them again:
  1. Will the bot change existing descriptions?
  2. How will the bot deal with identical descriptions from the template in de.wikipedia.org when trying to add them to Wikidata entries with the same label (technical not possible)?
  3. How will the bot deal with items that need better descriptions than those provided by the template, making them distinguishable on Wikidata („deutscher Adliger“)?
  4. How will the bot deal with descriptions from the template that are explicitly (Help:Description/de) too detailed for Wikidata?
A year ago, the template was used in 445.000 (!) articles. A bot run like this needs preparations and answers. I strongly object the approval. --Polarlys (talk) 09:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here are the answers:
  1. No.
  2. The bot will recive an error from the API and log it.
  3. If the description item equal to another item with this label,see answer 2. Because most of the difficult labels already have descriptions, there will no new description set.
  4. This case only applys if the description has more than 10 words. Also this descriptions will be written, but logged, so that users can change them if necessary. Help:Description/de proposes expicit KURZBESCHREIBUNG as description.
Sincerely Pyfisch --Pyfisch (talk) 13:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At Wikidata:Forum/Archiv/2012/12#Personenbeschreibungen is an archived discussion (in German) exactly about bot import of PERSONENDATEN:KURZBESCHREIBUNG into description fields. Scrolling through that old discussion, there are mainly the same concerns brought up here and no solution was found at that time (December 2012).
– Would it be possible to gather some statistics at this time to assesss the problems: Number (or better a list) of non-unique pairs (Q:label-de, de:Wikipedia-KURZBESCHREIBUNG) with frequencies (Like "3: ("Bernd Müller", "Deutscher Fußballspieler") -- Make (talk) 12:27, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I could gather some statistics, of course. --Pyfisch (talk) 13:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wikidata:Forum/Archiv/2012/12#Personenbeschreibungen is useless. If you want to alter something like that, you need to get acceptance in de.wikipedia , not only in some forum in Wikidata. Use de:Wikipedia:Projektdiskussion before making such big changes.--Müdigkeit (talk) 13:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I strongly disagree with the approval at this time. It cannot be made sure that the new descriptions are backed by reliable sources.
@Müdigkeit: Why do I need the acceptance in de.wikpedia? Adding descriptions on Wikidata don't affects Wikipedia. Can you please explain this. Sure, Wikipedia is no reliable source, but I think that Wikipedia description are a good way to distinguish different items. Addiditonally you can't add sources to descriptions. --Pyfisch (talk) 14:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You don’t need a mandate from de.wikipedia.org, but for the best results it would be good if you talked to the people who maintain PERSONENDATEN for many years and might have a more sophisticated perspective on Wikipedia and Wikidata as someone who is basically a new user. --Polarlys (talk) 14:55, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
 Info More test edits made. The bot is not overwriting existing descriptions. --Pyfisch (talk) 16:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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