Wikidata:Requests for permissions/RfRollback/July 2019
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Mike Novikoff
Mike Novikoff (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
You can see some vandalism fighting in my contribs in the past few months, and the same I do at my home enwiki. (Twinkle rules, and if I would be requesting this flag there someday, it would be only to try Huggle which requires it.) Of course there's nothing that can't be done without this flag here, but I guess some things will become more convenient. Especially if they do resurrect reCh that I miss for three weeks already. — Mike Novikoff 05:55, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- why you were denied rollbacker rights in ruwiki--DiMon2711 09:37, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- First of all, I am in perfectly good standing in all the other WMF projects that I ever appeared on since 2012, in seven years I've never got even a warning in any of these. I do believe that all that you have to do to have a good standing in a decent WMF project is to know the rules and adhere to them. This proves to be true almost everywhere, but ruwiki is one unfortunate exception that appears to be more of a social network, and a rather authoritarian one. There are some off-wiki clans there whose interests are above the written policies, and if you don't find yourself among one of these clans in a while (which I've never supposed to do), you don't have a chance. Eventually they'll accuse you of "incivility" (despite them being very uncivil to you), and finally they'll force you to leave. That's exactly what happened to me there this winter, after more than two years of my being there (which I shouldn't have started at all, if I only knew their customs that are not so obvious at first glance), and I guess my story is very typical for ruwiki, I'm not even in a first thousand of such.
Even so, I weren't really denied the rollbacker there, I've been granted it on 7 January 2018 along with "pending changes rewiewer" ("editor") and "redirect suppressing mover" ("suppressredirect"). And, you know, I was impressed with the number of people who supported my request back then. (Not to mention that according to the local rules I could have received these rights without any official public request at all, just because I've made more than 1000 edits in ruwiki.)
Another year went by (the whole of 2018), and then the pressure hit me. I'll tell you what they have used as a reason to withdraw my rollbacker flag. It was my posting to the talk pages of three involved users with a link to my own talk page where I've described what they have done to me and why I'm leaving ruwiki for good. My three postings were reverted with rollback by another user who failed to explain the reversion according to the rules when I asked him. I've reinstated my posts then (with rollback, too), and then they were reverted by yet another user of the same group who didn't bother to explain it either, but quickly filed a complaint against me which was promptly fulfilled. To make things even worse, these posts were revdel'd by one of the involved ruwiki admins the next day, as if it was something awful and very criminal, and I have no means to prove that it wasn't. That's basically the end of the story, I've never appeared at ruwiki again, and I guess I never will.
The bottom line is that I still have a good standing in every WMF project except ruwiki which I have left some months ago, and the main thing that I do since then is anti-vandalism at wikidata and enwiki. See whether my contribs are useful and in good faith. — Mike Novikoff 14:15, 23 June 2019 (UTC)- Hello @Mike Novikoff:, Thanks for explaining. I just have a question, among all the things that you mentioned above, is there a thing that you should not have done or you did wrong?--BRP ever 06:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Well, the most obvious thing is that since I've already declared my retirement from ruwiki this January, I shouldn't have tried to come back in next month the way I did. No matter who was right or wrong, there was no real way for me to change things at this point, and I really should have dropped the stick. (I've realized that shortly after.) — Mike Novikoff 13:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- Hello @Mike Novikoff:, Thanks for explaining. I just have a question, among all the things that you mentioned above, is there a thing that you should not have done or you did wrong?--BRP ever 06:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- As a ruwiki contributor I can confirm that Mike's rollbacker permission in ruwiki was removed as part of his long-standing confrontation with ruwiki's, and only ruwiki's, administration. So, it's a part of a social (I would even say, cultural) conflict which I think is unlikely to appear on other projects. The ruwiki atmosphere is definitely toxic in many ways, and although Mike's conduct was far from perfect, ruwiki's administrative actions have a very specific fashion. Not being in good standing with the ruwiki administration for social reasons is certainly not a disqualifying feature when it comes to getting permissions in other projects. Jack who built the house (talk) 09:02, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- First of all, I am in perfectly good standing in all the other WMF projects that I ever appeared on since 2012, in seven years I've never got even a warning in any of these. I do believe that all that you have to do to have a good standing in a decent WMF project is to know the rules and adhere to them. This proves to be true almost everywhere, but ruwiki is one unfortunate exception that appears to be more of a social network, and a rather authoritarian one. There are some off-wiki clans there whose interests are above the written policies, and if you don't find yourself among one of these clans in a while (which I've never supposed to do), you don't have a chance. Eventually they'll accuse you of "incivility" (despite them being very uncivil to you), and finally they'll force you to leave. That's exactly what happened to me there this winter, after more than two years of my being there (which I shouldn't have started at all, if I only knew their customs that are not so obvious at first glance), and I guess my story is very typical for ruwiki, I'm not even in a first thousand of such.
- Hello Mike! You had another problems in Russian Wikipedia in my opinion and I have quite different opinion about community and Your actions in ruwiki. You can't get any permission in Russian Wikipedia even if You have more than 10000 edits (not even 1000). If You mean mechanism of getting status "engineer", You really had support and I voted for You that time (but I wouldn't nowadays just cause I don't know anything about results of Your actvity as an engineer though we had a lot of discussions in technical project chat). At the same time You really were very unpolitely and even rude in discussions. You lost permission first of all because You can't express contempt to mempers of community for a long time and really not to get it's reaction. Nevertheless I don't mind if You will get rollbacker flag because vandalism is a real problem. By the way I didn't know You are interested in Wikidata is it so or this interest is just consequence Your activity in another projects? P.S. I'm very sorry to write it and I wouldn't like to do it here but our interpretations are to different and Your comment about Russian Wikipedia too prejudiced and unjustified. --Ksc~ruwiki (talk) 20:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- Hello, nice to see you. I remember your support at the time, and thanks for it again. Just to be precise, the 1000 edits I am talking about is really 500, which follows from 100 required edits to get it at all, multiplied by 5. That's exactly the way my friend ØM had got it. Unfortunately, when I've pinged exactly the same ruwiki admin for exactly the same purpose, I've got a 24h block for "incivility" instead, since he cared more of someone else (I'm not calling names, it's all in the archives of my local talk page), and he didn't even bother to ask me why I've pinged him before imposing *my first block ever* on me. You know, after that I've already departed from ruwiki (October 2017), and it took Jack to get me back a couple of months later. I may add that it turned out to be rather productive to Nena's discography at enwiki ;-) — Mike Novikoff 02:45, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- Support As you involved anti-vandalism work but I'm not convinced about ruwiki. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 17:02, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Obviously most people here don't know me at all, so I'll tell more of my background. I am 44 years old now (born 1975), and about 30 of these I'm into IT. Starting with
, then GOTO 100
, then uses CRT;
, then org 100h
and so on. About 25 of these years I'm into networking: #include <stdio.h>
. And it was Autumn 1999 when I've installed RH61 on my i586, though soon realized that MDK is somewhat better, the same stands for PLD, and the ultimate solution would be to read through the Maximum RPM (not Debian, you see). :-)ATZ; ATM0; ATDP123-4567
Although I'm Russian, in the days of my youth (circa 1989) there was no decent software with Russian interface, so I've been forced not only to learn English, but to prefer it when it comes to IT. Digging into Google Groups (formerly DejaNews) you can find my Fido posts of 2002 where I've declared my habit of
and LC_MESSAGES=C
(and I've even flamed about that somewhat) :-)../configure --disable-nls
And then came Wikipedia. By this time the choice of language was long out of question for me. It's definitely English (and who's Jimbo Wales?). My English may still not be all that perfect (although it was 1997 when my girl brought me the original of The Catcher in the Rye and I thanked her), I guess my en-3 reflects that correctly, but... you see. In 2012, I've registered my account at enwiki with no doubt at all. Then learned the basic rules: 5P, Be bold, AGF, and among them one of my favorites at the time: MOS:CT (I've started my very first edits with that).
Shall I describe all the pity I looked at ruwiki with? At their shameful state of content, and worse yet, at their shameful attitude when they say "policies like MoS will only distract users"? Well, I'm not going to write a rant about ruwiki here, I would not have mentioned it at all if the user above didn't, but take my word that it was never my home. I've had some ideas as how to improve it, had locally implemented some, there were some decent people, some of these people still remain (although some have departed at the approximately same time as me this winter, that's just a continuous process), but... What I am talking about is that I've already returned to the decent community that I've always been with, and I hope that you will not let them dark shadows follow me for the rest of my wiki-life (which may well just cease then). — Mike Novikoff 23:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
Done @Mike Novikoff: I granted you the rollbacker right. I don't think the ruwiki drama has to concern us here. I hope you make good use of your newly found rollbacker rights. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 09:50, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
JJBullet
JJBullet (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
I fight vandalism on enwiki and i use twinkle a lot to notify the user that i reverted their edits, i would use the roll-backer right to use huggle and make roll-backing vandalism easier ~JJBullet~ {Talk} 10:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- Not done; in Special:Diff/964084387 just 10 days ago, you were told to make some ns0 edits and reverts (which you didn't), and to come back in a few months (which haven't passed yet). As you have mentioned your enwiki contributions: 22 ns0 edits in that project do not qualify in any way as well. --MisterSynergy (talk) 10:48, 27 June 2019 (UTC)