Wikidata talk:WikiProject Association football

Galatasaray interwiki links

These links are an absolute mess right now. Q495299 (the football team) and Q43134 (the organisation which runs the team, amongst many others) have a bunch of jumbled up links. Lots which should be on the former are on the latter. Anyone with some time on their hands...? Wouldn't be surprised if this was also true for the other multi-sports clubs (such as the big Russian ones), though I haven't checked... Buttons to Push Buttons (talk) 12:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll have a go at sorting this out this evening. I'm usually quite good at fixing interwiki conflicts. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 12:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done I moved all the articles that spoke mainly of them being a football team into Q495299 (the football team), and kept the ones that talked mainly of it being a sports club that offered many different sports at Q43134. Feel free to have a quick look through in case I made any mistakes. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 19:01, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Forgot to reply at the time, but thanks for doing this, good stuff :) Buttons to Push Buttons (talk) 21:58, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Have poked around, and Fenerbahce is similarly a mess -- it didn't even have a separate Wikidata entry for just the football team. I've started fixing it up, with this as the multi-sports club entry and this as the football club entry, but I've not got enough time to finish the job, unfortunately... One thing I have noticed: the Azerbaijani entry seems to be a disambig page, so should be parallel to en:Fenerbahçe (disambiguation), but that doesn't have a Wikidata page yet either. Hmmph. Buttons to Push Buttons (talk) 23:51, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

 Done Moved the links to what seem to be the correct items. Also created new item for the DAB pages here. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 00:38, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Current state?

Hi! What's the current progress state of this taskforce? --A.Bernhard (talk) 12:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Help with properties and queries for importance football templates

Pls see User:Xaris333/Football. Xaris333 (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Links between English and Italian Wikipedias' categories

Category:Futsal team navigational boxes (Q9298730) and Q9298628: they are both about futsal-related navigational templates. Obviously they shouldn't be merged together, but I am not 100% sure of the relation "team = squadra" and "squad = rosa". --Ricordisamoa 09:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Main item

What is the item for specifically association football (soccer)? --Infovarius (talk) 04:30, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Structure of "national team"

I think the current links to national sports team (Q1194951) are currently a little too flat and unstructured (See: tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/tree.html?q=1194951&rp=31&lang=en). Would probably be better to create additional levels like this:

• national sports team (Q1194951)

• subclass of (P279) = national mens football team

• Germany national association football team (Q43310)
• France national association football team (Q47774)
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national womens football team

• Germany women's national football team (Q154408)
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national u-20-mens football team

• Germany national under-20 football team (Q316497)
• France national under-20 association football team (Q1344163)
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national u-20-womens football team

• ...
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national u-17-mens football team

• Germany national under-17 association football team (Q319699)
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national u-17-womens football team

• ...
• ...

• subclass of (P279) = national ice hockey team

• Germany men's national ice hockey team (Q318305)
• ...

Does that sound reasonable? -Tobias1984 (talk) 14:46, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes. --Infovarius (talk) 15:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Pages for matches

What is your opinion of having pages for matches of a cup or a league? I have create this for example Olympiacos F.C. - Atlético Madrid match on the 16 September 2014 (Q18707603). (I know that we have for the most importance like 2002 FIFA World Cup Final (Q715021)). Do you think will be useful? Xaris333 (talk) 08:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

I can think of no other way to organize this. Plus we still need properties for cards (qualifier point in time), players (start and end time qualifiers show which players started and which were substituted) and maybe some more things that are needed to fully describe such an event. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:23, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikimania 2016

Only this week left for comments: Wikidata:Wikimania 2016 (Thank you for translating this message). --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:05, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Importing data from infoboxes...

Hey. Fyi, I wrote a script to import data (clubs, selections and periods) from French footballer infoboxes to Wikidata. I'm testing it on French international players but the aim is to continue with the ~32000 players for whom these infoboxes have been written in French Wikipedia. My script adds period as qualifier if it doesn't exist (most common case) and reports possible inconsistencies it detects, in order to verify data.

In a second time, I think to do the same with English and Italian infoboxes. In order to accelerate the work, I ask for a bot status here : Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/B0ttle.

If you want any explanations or if you want to help me, please ask. --H4stings (talk) 12:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

40 days later... my bot has imported 1 million data in member of sports team (P54) from infoboxes (club, start, end, matches, goals, loan), firstly on international footballers. I've done something like 30% of the work. --H4stings (talk) 09:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see this section. As just mentioned on your talk page, I appreciate your work very much. I think, many users will think similarly about it. Cheers, Yellowcard (talk) 15:18, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks . The bot should celebrate its 2 millionth adding this evening. Data from more than 60,000 footballers were imported, including +- all the national team players, and at least as many remain to be done. --H4stings (talk) 15:50, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Update : readable data from WPen and WPfr has been imported. Something like 130,000 football player careers are more or less complete now w/ clubs, years, matches, goals and loans (=3.3 M edits). I'm now working on WPit infoboxes in order to complete and verify the import. --H4stings (talk) 13:13, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Euro 2016

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football

A subpage of this project for Euro 2016 (it's almost): Wikidata:WikiProject Association football/Euro 2016 (talk page).

Tubezlob (🙋) 14:46, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. There is still so much to do on main football data that I think I will not work with you on specific Euro 2016 data. But I'm happy to see that some ones are ready for it. --H4stings (talk) 13:05, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@Tubezlob: ahah, je viens de voir que tu as goûté à l'amabilité du projet football de WPfr. les anciens du projet foot sont un peu à cran avec Wikidata pour le moment, ce sera difficile de les faire venir (sauf peut-être quelques uns plus curieux comme Queix ou Dimonou). --H4stings (talk) 14:21, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@H4stings: D'accord. J'ai tendance à vouloir informer Wikipédia quand c'est quelque chose qui pourrait les concerner, mais à chaque fois il est vrai que je ne reçois pas un accueil très chaleureux Je pense que désormais, si je souhaite communiquer là-bas, je ne parlerais plus jamais de réutilisation, ce qui évitera de relancer un nouveau débat (comme une fois sur le Bistro).

C'est pour ça que je suis désormais actif en grande majorité sur Wikidata, car la communauté est beaucoup plus sympathique et audacieuse !

Tubezlob (🙋) 16:34, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

team qualified for continental competition

@Innocent bystander, Thryduulf, Edgars2007: And to anyone who interest.

Hi all. I am writing here to ask you if you think it will be good to have a property for the teams that qualified for a competition of a continental confederations. For example, Leicester City F.C. (Q19481) qualified to 2016–17 UEFA Champions League (Q18740961) through 2015–16 Premier League (Q19346732). How to show these of a Wikidata leagues page? We can't use promoted (P2881) because is not a promotion. Leicester City F.C. (Q19481) will continue on 2016–17 Premier League (Q23009701) and they will also play in 2016–17 UEFA Champions League (Q18740961) the same season.

In en:template:Infobox football league season are "continentalcup1" and "continentalcup1qualifiers" parameters (and 2,3,4...). Xaris333 (talk) 18:28, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata:Property proposal/Event#team qualified for continental competition (en) Xaris333 (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Statements for a league or a cup season

Hello. I am trying to complete the statements at Cypriot leagues and cups. For example, 2011–12 Cypriot First Division (Q1782589). I am using:

• instance of (P31) --> sports season of a sports club (Q1539532)
• country (P17)
• sport (P641) --> association football (Q2736)
• subclass of (P279)
• organizer (P664)
• follows (P155)
• followed by (P156)
• winner (P1346)
• start time (P580)
• end time (P582)
• league level below (P2500)
• league level above (P2499)
• relegated (P2882)
• promoted (P2881)
• official website (P856)
• participating team (P1923) with ranking (P1352), number of matches played/races/starts (P1350), number of wins (P1355), number of draws/ties (P1357), number of losses (P1356), number of points/goals/set scored (P1351), number of points/goals conceded (P1359) and points for (P1358) as qualifiers
• Commons category (P373)
• qualifies for event (P3085)
• league points system (P3195)
• number of participants (P1132)
• sponsor (P859)
• number of matches played/races/starts (P1350)
• number of points/goals/set scored (P1351) (total goals of the league)

Do you think are there any other statements that I can use? These regards to all leagues and cups for all countries. Xaris333 (talk) 14:08, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

What comes to my mind looking at infobox:

• series ordinal (P1545)
• maybe something for attendance (both total and average - with qualifiers). --Edgars2007 (talk) 15:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Edgars2007, series ordinal (P1545) or edition number (P393)? Xaris333 (talk) 15:22, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, the second one. --Edgars2007 (talk) 15:29, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Xaris333 (talk) 15:33, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Edgars2007 do you think would be useful to add home venue (P115) as qualifier to participating team (P1923)? Xaris333 (talk) 19:02, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Instead of subclass of (P279) you should use instance of (P31). That's because the season is an instance and not a class. See Help:Basic membership properties. Artem Korzhimanov (talk) 16:04, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Arturo and Alberto ?

It is the same guy or is just the dates that got mixed-up? We currently have two items Alberto Buccicardi (Q3624509) and Alberto Buccicardi (Q5662839) on Wikidata:Database reports/identical birth and death dates/1 for some time.
--- Jura 16:56, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

@Jura1: hi, yes they are the same. RSSSF.com (the best source imo) says its real name is Alberto Buccicardi. --H4stings (talk) 13:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Same person ?

Another pair of footballers on Wikidata:Database reports/identical birth and death dates/1:

• Walter Borck (Q139793) and Q24248579

Articles have different POB, but otherwise they are likely the same.
--- Jura 05:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes it could be, but both have an article on WPde. I'm going to ask to the German football project if they can check. --H4stings (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Items with sport=football, but no instance of (P31) or subclass of (P279)

At Wikidata:Database reports/without claims by site, there were a series of football related categories with items that had no statements at all.

Based on these categories, I added sport (P641) = association football (Q2736)

If you are interested in developing these items further, below is a query that finds these (and others):

• Items used: association football (Q2736)   

• Properties used: sport (P641)   , instance of (P31)   , subclass of (P279)   

SELECT ?item ?itemLabel
WHERE
{
	?item wdt:P641 wd:Q2736 . 
  	MINUS { ?item wdt:P31 [] }
  	MINUS { ?item wdt:P279 [] }
	SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en,es,pt,it,fr,nl,de,pl,ru,uk,ja,zh" }
}

Try it!

It lists currently 24553 items.
--- Jura 10:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

31342 items.
--- Jura 21:16, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. We should handle this with wikipedia categories, but I'm leaving for holidays. I'll see this in September, I guess. --H4stings (talk) 11:14, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good. No hurry. Some sat in "undefined" land for 3 years .. at least now we have an idea what they relate to.
--- Jura 11:56, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Can a bot change a property without change its values?

Hello. We should stop using participant (P710) and start using participating team (P1923) is leagues items. But, what can we do for those which already have participant (P710)? Is there a way with a bot to change a property without change its values? Xaris333 (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

It can be done by User:PLbot. Xaris333 (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

FIFA country code

Please say your opinion for Wikidata:Property proposal/FIFA country code. Xaris333 (talk) 16:08, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Series of seasons

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football Please read Wikidata:Project chat#Which one. Xaris333 (talk) 15:27, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Chapecoense

At Talk:Q27925924, there is s list. It might be worth double-checking it.
--- Jura 18:59, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

nickname (P1449)

Do you use this property for short names for footballers? e.g. the ones on Talk:Q27925924. Supposedly, if the label matches this, the full name should be in "birth name".
--- Jura 13:27, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Archived discussions held regarding football in Project Chat

A Football Season structure - instance/subclass/part of -- Unnited meta (talk) 14:06, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2019/01#Official_colors_(school_colors,_team_colors,_etc.) - Unnited meta (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

occupation (P106): association football player (Q937857) + sport (P641): association football (Q2736)

What's the point adding sport (P641): association football (Q2736) to items which already have occupation (P106): association football player (Q937857)? --XXN, 11:21, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Why not? Same logic: What's the point adding instance of (P31): human (Q5) to items which already have occupation (P106): association football player (Q937857)? Every association football player is a human... In my opinion, every item relative to association football must have sport (P641): association football (Q2736). Xaris333 (talk) 15:42, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Q1436231 for English football and Football League First Division

interwikis from Q1436231

English football	1st division	TBD
enwiki 1977–78 in English football eswiki Anexo:1977-78 en el fútbol de Inglaterra nlwiki Engels voetbalkampioenschap 1977/78	dewiki Football League First Division 1977/78 itwiki First Division 1977-1978 nowiki Engelsk 1. divisjon 1977–78	frwiki Championnat d'Angleterre de football 1977-1978 hewiki עונת 1977/1978 בפוטבול ליג ltwiki English football competition 1977-1978 ruwiki Футбольная лига Англии 1977/1978

Items like the above are currently a mixup of two different things. Depending on the user's language, probably one or the other appears.

Ideally we would probably make to new sets of items and then delete the original ones.
--- Jura 09:29, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Sample sorting in the table on the right side.
--- Jura 10:07, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree. Xaris333 (talk) 15:44, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion about structure and properties

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football

Wikidata:WikiProject Association football/Discussion about properties

Split Q162031 ("First Division" in Denmark) into 2 items ?

Apparently the "First Division" was the first division till 1990 when it become the 2nd level and Danish Superliga (Q204752) started. To make statements, it might be easier to have separate items.

A good place for the frwiki articles needs to be found as well: these are about seasons of one or the other, or any division.
--- Jura 13:24, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Coached teams

How should we represent the teams that a person has coached? Should we ask for a new property? Or rather use position held (P39) -> head coach (Q3246315) with a qualifier for of (P642) ? Andrei Stroe (talk) 13:22, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Item about national teams

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football

Please read my proposal at User:Xaris333/Association football national teams. You can comment at discussion page. Thanks. Xaris333 (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Catalog of FIFA players and coachs

Hi! I uploaded the full catalog of players and coachs from FIFA site to Mix'n'Match: [1]. There are footballers and coachs who played world cups, olympics, futsal, mens and womens, U17, U20, seniors, etc. You can help matching the catalog entries to items in wikidata using visual match, mobile game or game mode. There are many wikidata missing items, mainly in womens football and futsal. Regards, Jmmuguerza (talk) 16:31, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Trying to create a showcase item for the FIFA World Championship

What would you add to Russia 5-0 Saudi Arabia (Q54989207)? -Theklan (talk) 20:59, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Which statements are required for a player and what are the basic guidelines?

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football - need a page where we can have the basic guidelines for a player, please share if you are aware of any --Unnited meta (talk)

Wikidata:WikiProject_Association_football/Player_Properties setup for this, please update/discuss as required --Unnited meta (talk) 08:33, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

National associations of clubs

Hello! How can I understand that Cardiff City F.C. (Q18662) is playing in the English league system and is representing England in Eurocups? The statement that country (P17) is United Kingdom (Q145) is not enough for this purpose. And why country (P17) is France (Q142) for AS Monaco FC (Q180305)? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 07:11, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

The link is via league (P118) and operating area (P2541). —Andrei^talk 09:27, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

What are the best modelled items for your areas of interest?

Hi all

Over the past few months myself and others have been thinking about the best way to help people model subjects consistently on Wikidata and provide new contributors with a simple way to understand how to model content on different subjects. Our first solution is to provide some best practice examples of items for different subjects which we are calling Model items. E.g the item for William Shakespeare (Q692) is a good example to follow for creating items about playwright (Q214917). These model items are linked to from the item for the subject to make them easier to find and we have tried to make simple to understand instructions.

We would like subject matter experts to contribute their best examples of well modelled items. We are asking all the Wikiprojects to share with us the kinds of subjects you most commonly add information about and the best examples you have of this kind of item. We would like to have at least 5 model items for each subject to show the diversity of the subject e.g just having William Shakespeare (Q692) as a model item for playwright (Q214917), while helpful may not provide a good example for people trying to model modern poets from Asia.

You can add model items yourself by using the instructions at Wikidata:Model items. It may be helpful to have a discussion here to collate information first.

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 15:14, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I have added

⟨ association football team (Q15944511)    ⟩ model item (P5869) ⟨ Nea Salamis Famagusta FC (Q714581)    ⟩

and

⟨ sports season (Q27020041)    ⟩ model item (P5869) ⟨ 2018–19 Cypriot First Division (Q52151351)    ⟩

Xaris333 (talk) 12:08, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Data for automatic infoboxes

Hello all,

At Danish Wikipedia we have talked about making the infobox (Template:Infobox football biography (Q5616966)) for football players automatically with data from Wikidata as it can be a lot of work to update the information about their career. The idea is that users from many Wikipedias can share the work to update Wikidata and then have their own Wikipedia updated from Wikidata.

There seems however now to be missing some data to do that:

1. We have member of sports team (P54) which are used for many football players. But there seems to be no indication if the player was a youth player or senior player at the team. Is there a qualificator which is suited to indicate that? I am unsure about subject has role (P2868).
2. Many football players also have a career as teams managers or coaches. This is expressed with coach of sports team (P6087) for the head coach, but I cannot find a way to express this for assistent coaches, goalkeeper coaches and others. Do you have any suggestions?

If we can find a way to express these data, I intend to make a module to create the infoboxes in cooperation with any other volunteers. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 14:31, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football and

MisterSynergy Thierry Caro Vanbasten_23 Malore Сидик из ПТУ Mathieu Kappler Lee Vilenski Erokhin Dandilero Blackcat Looniverse

Notified participants of WikiProject Sports --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 12:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Great idea. I thought that same thing, but instead of the infobox for the honours and clubs tables, which could also be done when the data is very complete. In fact I was talking to users of frwiki to implement it because they do it for the tour of France. --Vanbasten 23 (talk) 13:03, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Module:Cycling race can make infoboxes for bicycle races and several other kind of tables about races. I made some improvements to that module last year to make it faster. I intend something similar, but the module for football player infoboxes should be better coded though. But first please say how to indicate 1) if a football player in a team is youth player or senior player (qualificator the P54), and 2) how to indicate that a person is coach (other than head coach) for a team. Thank you, --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 13:17, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

In many Wikipedias stats in Template:Infobox football biography (Q5616966) summarizes only games (goals) in domestic leagues. For example, this data is correct for Cristiano Ronaldo (Q11571) with 292 (311) for Real Madrid CF (Q8682) but there is no argument against stating there 438 (450) including Eurocups. So, it is necessary to provide a way to fill in separate statistics for various tournaments as part of a player’s performance for one club (Supercopa de España (Q485997), UEFA Champions League (Q18756), etc.). Another problem is defining the time frame for the club performance. Denis Boyarintsev (Q945319) signed a contract with Spartak Moscow (Q29112) at December 25, 2008 and left club at January 8, 2010, so he played for Spartak Moscow (Q29112) only in 2009 Russian Premier League (Q1084791) and we should indicate this as "2009 | Spartak Moscow (Q29112) | 19 (0)" in Template:Infobox football biography (Q5616966). However, information on the dates of signing of contracts should not be lost either. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 13:30, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Great. I did it in French Wikipedia 2 or 3 years ago: I imported millions of career data in Wikidata from English/German/Italian Wikipedia (with a bot, B0ttle), then I modified the footballer infobox in the French Wikipedia so that it takes automatically data from wikidata if there is no manual information. But at the end I met a lot of resistance in the French community so I gave up. Here is the list of footballers in French Wikipedia where the infobox use Wikidata data: https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=8941624 H4stings (talk) 13:57, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@Сидик из ПТУ: Denis Boyarintsev (Q945319) have articles in 10 Wikipias. None of the infoboxes have information for dates for signing contracts, so the signing dates seems not to be needed. It seems to me that the number of matches and goals are always only for the domestic league, so is this a problem? --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 14:21, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I mean that the Wikidata somewhere must have the dates of signing contracts that are not needed in infoboxes too. Statistics by domestic cups is also not needed in infoboxes, but must be in Wikidata in order to be used in detailed statistical tables in future.

If tomorrow there is a user who changes a "292" for a "438" at

⟨ Cristiano Ronaldo (Q11571)    ⟩ member of sports team (P54) ⟨ Real Madrid CF (Q8682)    ⟩
number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 292 ⟩

, he will break the logic, but he will be right, because nowhere is it said that only matches in domestic leagues are counted in this Wikidata property. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I also want to add that even within the Russian Wikipedia, the users could not come to a common opinion about whether to include matches of the Football League Championship play-offs (Q4202932) and MLS Cup Playoffs (Q6716635) in the infobox, so a detailed separation of statistics on tournaments and even seasons is needed. Then each language section of Wikipedia will be able to take from here only what it needs. Moreover, we need to immediately provide for the possibility of filling in tables like

Club	Season	League			Cup			Continental			Total
		Apps	Goals	Assists	Apps	Goals	Assists	Apps	Goals	Assists	Apps	Goals	Assists
Boca Juniors	2004–05	15	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	16	0	0
	2005–06	34	0	3	0	0	0	5	0	0	39	0	3
	2006–07	20	1	2	0	0	0	6	0	0	26	1	2
	Total	69	1	5	0	0	0	12	0	10	81	1	5
Real Madrid	2006–07	13	0	1	2	0	0	2	0	0	17	0	1
	2007–08	31	0	2	5	0	1	6	0	1	42	0	4
	2008–09	26	1	7	1	0	0	6	0	0	33	1	7
	2009–10	18	0	1	2	0	0	2	0	0	22	0	1
	2010–11	4	0	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	7	0	0
	Total	92	1	11	13	0	1	16	0	1	121	1	13
Roma (loan)	2011–12	30	1	3	2	0	0	0	0	0	32	1	3
	Total	30	1	3	2	0	0	0	0	0	32	1	3
Valencia	2012–13	12	0	2	0	0	0	4	0	1	16	0	3
	Total	12	0	2	0	0	0	4	0	1	16	0	3
Vélez (loan}	2012–13	4	0	2	0	0	0	4	1	1	10	1	2
	Total	4	0	1	2	0	0	4	1	1	10	1	2
Boca Juniors	2013–14	19	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	19	0	2
	2014	10	1	2	0	0	0	5	0	3	15	1	5
	2015	14	2	3	3	1	0	6	0	1	19	3	4
	2016	11	0	6	1	0	0	6	1	3	18	1	9
	2016–2017	16	2	8	0	0	0	0	0	0	16	2	8
	2017–2018	6	0	2	6	1	3	0	0	0	12	1	5
	2018–2019	8	0	6	1	0	1	5	0	3	14	0	10
	Total	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Career Total		275	8	51	28	2	5	58	2	13	361	12	69

Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:43, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't see any immediately need for so detailed data. No player infoboxes have numbers for each year in the same club, so that isn't needed for the infoboxes. They may be needed for other uses, but my goal is only to create infoboxes and I wish to make sure the necessary data for this can be represented. That why I ask for help with that (youth/senior, type of coach, apps+goals for domestic league/other match).--Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 22:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, it's my mistake. I wanted to write "previously", not "immediately". It must be borne in mind that the current system has strong flaws and we still have to break it. Detailed stats will allow to solve both problems, and the situation with undescribed criteria for counting matches cannot be reliable. And even if we come up with such a criterion in Wikidata, it may differ from the criteria of the language sections of Wikipedia. We need to provide free choice of data for Wikipedia. If some language sections count apps+goals of Play-offs Nederlands voetbal (Q2319018) in the infoboxes, while others do not, then both should be able to get the data they need in semi-ready form. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:50, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Another food for thought: in Russian Wikipedia and in many other national flags are used to indicate the country of the league. For example we have two lines with two different flags (Soviet and Ukrainian) in infobox for this Dinamo Kiev player. So, we are not satisfied with the sum of Soviet and Ukrainian apps+goals. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 12:54, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Flags will be no problem if the clubs have country (P17) set correctly. Now FC Dynamo Kyiv (Q179075) only have country (P17) Ukraine (Q212), but that is easy to correct. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 14:21, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Is country (P17) as United Kingdom (Q145) for Cardiff City F.C. (Q18662) correct? How can we get English or Welsh flag from it (we prefer English for Cardiff City F.C. (Q18662) in Rusiian Wikipedia)? And how can we separate Soviet apps+goals from Ukrainian in Oleh Luzhnyi (Q705494)? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 14:41, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, teams which plays in leagues outside of their home country is a complication. But it can be solved by following league (P118) from the team to the league, and then use country (P17) for the league. If the country or league changes over time, state all with start time (P580) and end time (P582) as qualifiers. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 08:30, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

@H4stings: Great, but these infoboxes in frwiki have no information about youth career or coach career as far as I can see, or am I missing something? Many Wikipedias have this information in the infoboxes, and I don't to loose it (and it would never be accepted at my home wiki (dawiki) either). --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 14:21, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

This is great idea but @Сидик из ПТУ: comment is very important for match categorizing. Regards, Sakhalinio (talk) 14:40, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I was thinking about that template a lot for Greek Wikipedia. I have change many templates in Greek Wikipedia to retrieve various parameter values from wikidata but this one it's difficult... Another question is, how we are going to show that a player is in loan to a team? How the template can show this information from wikidata?... I know that every Wikipedia have different module about wikidata. But it would be easier if we have a support team that knows about these things, to help each Wikipedia to change their template to take data from wikidata. Xaris333 (talk) 14:52, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

@Xaris333: Loan is expressed with acquisition transaction (P1642) loan (Q2914547). See Eric Addo (Q353602) for an example of use. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 15:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the problem is how to show this information from wikidata to wikipedia template. Usually the template has the team that the player belong to, and after that the team that is loan. For example,

2016– Porto 15 (0)

2018– → Olympiacos (loan) 19 (0)

Xaris333 (talk) 16:57, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I see no problem about coding a module so loans is presented the same way in the generated infobox as now. All necessary data to do that is present. --Dipsacus fullonum (talk) 22:16, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Three ways for one item

Look at Carlos Strandberg (Q15534391) where the same statistics is filled in three different ways: via member of sports team (P54), participant in (P1344) and number of matches played/races/starts (P1350). I believe that statistics should be completely removed from member of sports team (P54) qualifiers since there it is impossible to indicate which tournaments are taken into account and on what date the statistics are checked. I think season statistics should keep in separate properties like number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) and total goals in career (P6509) for the following reasons:

• Duplication participant in (P1344) with 2015–16 Russian Premier League (Q19915706) for every team is wrong. Carlos Strandberg (Q15534391) participated in 2015–16 Russian Premier League (Q19915706) with two different teams.
• Different sources may have different numbers of goals in one tournament for one player, we must be able to make two independent statements with different sources and rangs.
• It should be possible to update only the number of matches, without changing point in time (P585) for the number of goals or yellow cards, since the different data may not be available at the same time. It will also help to avoid situations when someone updates only matches and goals, but not yellow cards, making point in time (P585) correct only for some qualifiers.
• Using of independent statements like number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) and total goals in career (P6509) allows to use additional qualifiers like date of the first one (P7124) and date of the latest one (P7125).

In summary, we need to have:

• Career stats by tourntaments (ready for filling, look at Stipe Pletikosa (Q208706) as an example with Russian Super Cup (Q290424) and Russian Premier League Relegation play-offs (Q66087907) stats).
• Total stats by tourntament seasons (for example, to get a sorted list of 2016–17 Premier League (Q23009701) scorers; not ready for filling and using).
• Opportunity to get player statistics with a particular club by the tournament (for infobox rows; not ready for filling and using).

I do not see any reason to duplicate Carlos Strandberg (Q15534391) statistics in 2016–17 Russian Premier League (Q24255279) where he played only for PFC CSKA Moscow (Q176371). But for 2015–16 Russian Premier League (Q19915706) we need three values (with Ural, with CSKA and total). Using of applies to part (P518) is an option for discussion but we should to find a way to have independent Strandberg's stats for Ural and CSKA at this season. We also need to separate Christian Pulisic (Q22279773) stats in 2018–19 Bundesliga (Q47787804) where he spent one half of the season on loan for the same club for which he had previously played with a full contract.

I suggest that we should not fill in the statistics for the seasons until clear rules are developed, since it will simply be useless to overload the base. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 20:51, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

A couple of comments: - while true that different sources can state different totals of goals/games etc, assuming the rule is kept that statistics are only updated after the completion of a season or tournament, then only one of the sources can be correct. If there is a conflict, what is the value of keeping the one that is wrong ? Is it not better to try and determine the one that is in error and remove it ?

- I agree with the note that if possible, statistics should be removed from P54, however I see one small problem which is that I see no category or property which applies to international friendly matches (perhaps if there is one, someone can point me to it ?), so to truly see for example how many games a player participated in for a national team, I can't see how it can be entered otherwise ?

- whether season stats go into Participant of (P1344) or Number of Matches (P1350), number of goals (P1351) creates some kind of duplication regardless of which is used. If you use P1344, there is duplication on the references, if you use P1350 / P1351 etcstating participation across the season/tournament many times, which could become worse should new properties for yellow cards, red cards, minutes played, times coming on as sub, coming off as sub etc were created.

- to me using P1344 is easier to read and work with as it is much clearer what data has been added and is missing for a particular tournament or season, but are there any issues with not being able to summarize data using either approach ?

- I'm not a QuickStatements of bulk entry expert, but i'm a little confused or unsure how bulk entry of stats could be done if you use P1350/P1351 etc. For example if a player has 10 games played for 2018/19 Bundesliga and also had 10 games played for 2017/18 Bundesliga, then they can get merged into the same property. I think it is a safer option to have numerical values linked to a parent property rather than linking properties as children of a numerical value. CanadianCodhead (talk) 13:57, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

1. We need a quick update statistics on the day of the match. We want to see extremely relevant data in the info boxes, and in anticipation of the automatic update of the data, we pin our hopes on Wikidata. It will be very strange to update statistics once a year here, although the project was conceived as simplifying and accelerating work with data. And statistics may differ for old tournaments - look at Dmitri Sychev (Q299383) goals at 2009 season here (12) and here (13). Wikidata has a special deprecated rank for incorred statements with mistaken sources. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
2. We have national team appearances (P1129) which can be used to show total amount of all player's games including friendlies with national team. However we can do it like
   ⟨ Dmitri Sychev (Q299383)    ⟩ number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 47 ⟩
   member of sports team (P54) ⟨ Russia national football team (Q726080)    ⟩
   criterion used (P1013) ⟨ FIFA recognised ⟩
   date of the first one (P7124) ⟨ 27/03/2002 ⟩
   date of the latest one (P7125) ⟨ 11/08/2010 ⟩
   and like
   ⟨ Dmitri Sychev (Q299383)    ⟩ number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 18 ⟩
   of (P642) ⟨ friendly match (Q493386)    ⟩
   criterion used (P1013) ⟨ FIFA recognised ⟩
   date of the first one (P7124) ⟨ 27/03/2002 ⟩
   date of the latest one (P7125) ⟨ 11/08/2010 ⟩
   for details. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
3. On the contrary, I think that the new properties will be more universal and it would be better for us to use independent statements for yellow and red cards or for substitutions.
   ⟨ Dmitri Sychev (Q299383)    ⟩ Number of discipline cards Search ⟨ 1 ⟩
   of (P642) ⟨ 2009 Russian Premier League (Q1084791)    ⟩
   criterion used (P1013) ⟨ red card (Q847803)    ⟩
   date of the first one (P7124) ⟨ 29/05/2009 ⟩
   date of the latest one (P7125) ⟨ 29/05/2009 ⟩
   ⟨ Dmitri Sychev (Q299383)    ⟩ Number of discipline cards Search ⟨ 4 ⟩
   of (P642) ⟨ 2009 Russian Premier League (Q1084791)    ⟩
   criterion used (P1013) ⟨ yellow card (Q1048067)    ⟩
   date of the first one (P7124) ⟨ 09/08/2009 ⟩
   date of the latest one (P7125) ⟨ 08/11/2009 ⟩
   ⟨ Dmitri Sychev (Q299383)    ⟩ number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 3 ⟩
   of (P642) ⟨ 2009 Russian Premier League (Q1084791)    ⟩
   criterion used (P1013) ⟨ coming off as sub ⟩
   date of the first one (P7124) ⟨ 05/04/2009 ⟩
   date of the latest one (P7125) ⟨ 10/05/2009 ⟩
4. Yes, I had same problem when I worked with QuickStatements and it prompted me to go to work with Wikidata:Tools/OpenRefine. But even greater problems will be when you need to add a new indicator (for example, yellow cards) or update something through P1344, because QuickStatements do not support the ability to edit or remove qualifiers of statement. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 15:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I think we will just need to agree to disagree on #3. I find the model of using P1350, P1351 etc as the higher property and then adding qualifiers to a numerical value very hard to read and track what information is in the database. CanadianCodhead (talk) 15:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I believe that it is much more convenient and safer to edit goals and yellow cards separately, being able to indicate the date of the debut and last goal in the tournament, provide independent sources and ranks, independent check dates. With P1344-based approach it will be impossible to update only matches and goals without updating the cards, since they will have a joint check date. Also without a date of the latest one (P7125), updating data in a matchday format will be much more difficult because we need to know whether today's match (goals, cards) has been taken into account or not. Moreover, I'm not sure that there will be a separate property for penalty goals count. Most likely, the number of goals from the penalty is more rational to indicate with total goals in career (P6509) with addintional qualifier. The same with the color of the cards, substitutions, headers, equalizers, own goals, winning goals etc. Just imagine that because of the discrepancy in the number of yellow cards we have to duplicate all the rest statistics for the season. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 16:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of the ability to mark something as deprecated, I still don't understand why if another website makes a mistake and has incorrect data noted that you want to keep that in Wikidata ? Surely that is not the intention of the site.

This is not my whim. This is Wikidata policy to make it clear that this wrong statement has been noted and processed as deprecated. Otherwise, another user may edit Sychev's goals from 12 to 13 assuming that he sees the correct value in the source and the wrong one in Wikidata. In general, this is one of the main rules of all Wikimedia projects - to report on different points of view of secondary sources. By the way, in this case we are not talking about a mistake, but about a disagreement about the author of a specific goal.--Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 17:28, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

How is it not a mistake ? Sychev either scored 12 goals or he scored 13 goals. I personally don't know which is correct, but only one of them is correct, there is no dispute or interpretation involved, one of them must be an error.

If a user finds an entry saying Sychev scored 12 goals already in Wikidata with a reference of internet site A, they should not update it to 13 because site B says something else. That renders the whole idea of the reference pointless.

If statements that are not valid or no longer accurate should be marked as processed and deprecated, and not corrected or removed then surely this whole discussion about how to track statistics is irrelevant, because no statement should ever be updated, just marked as deprecated and replaced with an entirely new one.

Thus for instance you would enter for as an example Sadio Mane - in England Premiership 2019/20 for Liverpool FC total goals scored 0 as of 2019-08-09, and then mark that as deprecated and then enter a totally new statement saying Sadio Mane - in Premiership 2019/20 for Liverpool FC total goals scored 1 as of 2019-08-19 and then after his next match enter another new one etc. CanadianCodhead (talk) 18:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Read Help:Ranking. The deprecated rank is used for statements that are known to include errors. Yes, we can add new statements for Sadio Mane goals in England Premiership 2019/20 every saturday with Preferred rank and set old statements rank to Normal with end time (P582) but I think it's bad idea. Anyway, it's even more perspectiveless with P1344-based stats. As for Sychev’s strange goal, that is situations where the video does not give an unambiguous answer about the goal’s authorship and different sources occupy different positions. We are talking about first goal of this match.Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 18:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I still don't see this as a matter of opinion about the goal. Surely the Russian Football League (or some similar body) made a final determination about who would be given credit for the goal. It may have been done a couple of hours after the match finished, a couple of days etc, but there is an 'official' correct answer to the question of who scored that goal. One of the websites referenced did not update their data to show this. Wikidata should not be reproducing that error.

Help:ranking specifically says 'Ranks are not a way of asserting your view for a disputed value, but instead are used for communicating the consensus opinion for a statement.' There is no opinion involved here, either Sychev was eventually officially credited with that goal meaning his season total was 13, or he was not meaning his season total was 12.

I agree completely that making new statements after every game is a silly idea, but if the principle is that as you get updated or more accurate information you can update the statement, then that should apply globally. CanadianCodhead (talk) 19:05, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

If a reliable source that we usually trust makes a statement about 12 goals this should be on Wikidata. In fact, most of the participants do not know which of the options is correct but with the help of this rank they should figure it out. And in this case some sources insist on the option with 12 goals. For example this goal doesn't count for Q3655517 (symbolic club for best Russian goalscorers maintained by Sport Express (Q974931)). In fact, most Russian sports media report about 12 goals although the league thinks differently. We can always agree to take a league position, but an alternative opinion and even simply repetitive errors with deprecated rank in Wikidata are welcome. As for updating and deleting of statements it is unacceptable to delete Soviet Union (Q15180) as country (P17) for Moscow (Q649) or Arsène Wenger (Q47576) as head coach (P286) for Arsenal F.C. (Q9617). Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 20:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I still think this comes down to if you believe it can be factually true that he scored either 12 or 13 goals. I don't think that can be the case. Either one or the other is correct. Data that is clearly incorrect should not be retained, marked as deprecated or not. For example, this query will generate a list of footballers who have 'England' (Q21) listed as their country of citizenship (P27). This is not possible, it is not now, nor was it ever factually correct when it was imported etc. England is not a country, you can't be a citizen of it. It makes no sense at all to mark this statement as deprecated. Those statements should be removed, not marked deprecated.

SELECT ?player ?playerLabel ?playerDescription ?dob WHERE { ?player wdt:P31 wd:Q5 .

   ?player wdt:P106 wd:Q937857 .
   ?player wdt:P27 wd:Q21.
   ?player wdt:P21 wd:Q6581097.
   ?player wdt:P569 ?dob.
 

filter not exists { ?player wdt:P2446 []. } SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en" } }

ORDER BY DESC(?dob) ?playerLabel LIMIT 250

CanadianCodhead (talk) 20:10, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, situation with English citizenships is a mistake of Wikidata users and is not approved in the sources but there are discrepancies in scoring goals due to the fault of sources and we need to note that a number of sources contain incorrect or alternative opinions. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:26, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

I still dont understand why if another website makes a mistake, Wikidata should reproduce it. If that is the case, then the England citizenship statement is perfectly valid data. If you go to Transfermarkt.com, one of largest football sites on the web, and one often used as a reference here, it directly says on the profile for all players who represent England internationally that their citizenship=England. See https://www.transfermarkt.com/harry-kane/profil/spieler/132098. So therefore this is perfectly valid data that should be loaded into and referenced on Wikidata. Even though it is unquestionably not accurate. CanadianCodhead (talk) 16:58, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

English citizenships from Transfermarkt are perfectly valid data for country for sport (P1532) in most cases. All sport databases imply this property when stating something about Nationality[2][3], Country[4] or Citizenship[5]. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 17:50, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, England is valid for P1532 (although it would be better if this was named represents for sport, or something similar), but it is not valid for country of citizenship. Yes, other websites do all have this concept, but every one that I looked at calls it 'Nationality', not 'Citizenship'. Nationality and Citizenship are 2 different things, they are afterall 2 different properties in Wikidata, but only this one website directly labels their data as 'Citizenship', which is wrong. However, should it get entered into a Wikidata statement referenced as such, apparently we have to keep it.

One other note I would raise, going back to the original roots of this thread is that all the other sports folks who seem to be trying to use Wikidata to track their statistics (which seems to be mainly folks interested in Olympics, cycling and badminton) are using 'participant of' to track their data and add statistics/results etc into statements as qualifiers of those. Surely they face the same apparent issues that have been raised here, but still feel this is the approach to use. At a minimum we need to examine and learn from what they have done, and have a very valid reason for deviating from their approach. CanadianCodhead (talk) 20:31, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Transfermarkt is a German site and I believe that these are translation difficulties. If you change the interface language to Russian it will be Nationality (Национальность) there[6]. So for Russian users there are not any issues with it. Continuing the conversation about statistics, I note that so far only ice hockey has advanced in this direction. Look at Alexander Ovechkin (Q311374) detailed NHL career stats. Many of this properties were approved specially for using as independent, not as qualifiers. Also look at tennis stats of Novak Djokovic (Q5812) (ranking (P1352), singles record (P564), doubles record (P555)). I believe that we are just observing the evolution of statistics migration in Wikidata (member of sports team (P54) → participant in (P1344) → number of matches played/races/starts (P1350)). We should not indicate even sport number (P1618) as a qualifier, since if a player changes it during the season or just in the fifth year of playing for the team, this requires a separate entry, which indicates when the number was changed with start time (P580) and end time (P582). Now imagine that because of this we will separate the statistics of goals and yellow cards. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 06:33, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

The stats on the Ovechkin page, as well as Djokovic are for their entire careers. I fully agree that those are properly placed into statements designed for career achievements. What we are talking about is stats for a specific season / tournament etc. All the sports data folks I can find doing this across sports outside of football use the https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1344. Such as athletics ( https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1189 ), cycling ( https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q356327 ), badminton ( https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q27787877 ) etc. If you can point to a case of someone using others for season/tournament statistics I'd be happy to look at it. None i can find have chosen to do so, despite having the independent statements like 'Race Time' etc, and surely they face the same issues of different sources potentially having different data etc you have raised above. CanadianCodhead (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

If we talk about athletics (Q542) then I do not see any systematic approach. Yes, there is an weirdly overloaded Usain Bolt (Q1189) item. Just look to excrescent qualifiers like country (P17) or point in time (P585) and the same weird data duplication for Bolt in qualifiers of 2002 World Junior Championships in Athletics – men's 200 metres (Q20805767). It’s just one user’s poorly designed actions performed only for Bolt. Nothing like this for Justin Gatlin (Q1652) or any other athlete. I think we should not follow him to indicate country (P17) or sport (P641) for the seasons of national Cups or Legues. This does not need to be done for the same reason that we do not specify a date of birth (P569) for the spouse (P26). And if we transfer this situation to cyclists then for each of them we would have to indicate somethink like 2017 Tour de France, stage 5 (Q27437588) as P1344 but we don’t observe this with cyclists that is a more reasonable approach is chosen here. I am considering the implementation of a list of biathlon results for each race of each season, and I come to the conclusion that for athletes only 2015–16 Biathlon World Cup (Q18759761) will be indicated as P1344 with detaled results by races should not stored in athletes items but can be found via 2015–16 Biathlon World Cup (Q18759761).

At first glance cyclists look like a more elaborate data set in Wikidata, but I see a number of obvious flaws here if we use P1344 as result storage. One qualifier ranking (P1352) is not enough to indicate the second place of a Primož Roglič (Q2110167) in mountains classification (P4320) of 2017 Tour de France (Q21821246). ranking (P1352) should be independet statement of Primož Roglič (Q2110167) for it:

⟨ Primož Roglič (Q2110167)    ⟩ ranking (P1352) ⟨ 2 ⟩
of (P642) ⟨ 2017 Tour de France (Q21821246)    ⟩
criterion used (P1013) ⟨ mountains classification (Q820524)    ⟩

If we pay attention to the number of doping cases in cycling, when positions in the different classifications are redistributed over time, it will be necessary to use ranks to indicate what result the cyclist had before disqualifying him or before disqualifying a superior opponent. For example we should have results of Lance Armstrong (Q2172) until 2012 to know that he was considered a champion in a certain period of time, etc. Also in the spirit of Wikidata will be indicating that the Andy Schleck (Q241280) was second at 2010 Tour de France (Q217287) until 2012 when Alberto Contador (Q132738) was disqualified. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 08:40, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

What to show as the label for players with dual nationality

Many players are citizens of one nation, but represent a different nation when they play internationally. Additionally some players switch allegiance at some point in their careers. For example https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3952812 is a citizen of the UK, represented Scotland as a youth player, but represents Canada as a senior international. What should his label read ? 'British/Canadian association football player', 'Canadian association football player', 'Scottish association football player', other ? CanadianCodhead (talk) 14:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

In Russian we will write like "Scottish and Canadian association football player". Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 14:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Q90164273

Hello, I guess this item should be a property. Can someone submit a proposal before we delete it? Pamputt (talk) 19:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Encourage project members to contribute to this discussion

Wikidata:Project_chat#How_are_these_2_items_different_-_to_be_merged? As a result of this, tens of thousands of football related items now have inaccurate statements associated with them. CanadianCodhead (talk) 15:50, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

List (almost certainly incomplete) of teams impacted

Caption text

Team	Original now repurposed item	Newly created item
1860 Munich	Q131603	Q97905999
SV Darmstadt	Q479351	Q97905986
Wolfsburg	Q101859	Q97906010
Hertha Berlin	Q102720	Q97905939
Werder Bremen	Q51976	Q97906014
Koln	Q104770	Q97905877
Holstein Kiel	Q157828	Q97940890
Union Berlin	Q141971	Q97927360
Waldhof Mannheim	Q170134	Q97905991
Wurzburger Kickers	Q535785	Q97940829
Eintracht Trier	Q647893	Q97927381
VfB Stuttgart	Q4512	Q97906005
Nurnberg	Q15786	Q97905881
Kaiserslautern	Q8466	Q97905874
Schalke	Q32494	Q97905923
RB Leipzig	Q702455	Q97905954
SC Freiburg	Q106394	Q97905964
FSV Mainz 05	Q105254	Q97905884

Wikidata:Requests for deletions? Interwiki moving? Items about multisports club (Q13580678) should have articles like de:VfL Wolfsburg (Verein), not like de:VfL Wolfsburg. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:42, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Merge rugby union venue (Q15303456) and association football venue (Q1154710)?

I undid the merge of these two items done by Сидик из ПТУ because I don't think they refer to the same concept. We had a discussion on my talk page but without reaching a consensus. What do you think? Ayack (talk) 17:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

There are two types of football stadiums: with athletic tracks (like Stade de France (Q13205)) and without them (like Wembley Stadium (Q128468)) which named in English Wikipedia as Soccer-specific stadium. We can play association football (Q2736), rugby union (Q5849), rugby league (Q10962), women's association football (Q606060), women's rugby league (Q3452887), women's rugby union (Q3452920) at every of them. It may even be difficult to find a football stadium where rugby has never been played and vice versa. So it should be named like Stadiums where rugby has ever been played but it's bad idea for main classification of Wikidata item. Moreover, it should be stated in sport (P641) field. We also have special categories such as Category:Association football players (Q7217464) or Category:Rugby footballers (Q7042506) but we do not use instance of (P31) for association football player (Q937857) or rugby player (Q13415036). And for Category:Rugby union stadiums (Q23365958) we can use category combines topics (P971) (stadium type + sport played)[7] or category contains (P4224) (stadium type with sport (P641)). My main proposal is to use in instance of (P31) for football staiums pitch (Q4256984) (association or rugrby football stadium with athletics tracks) or association football venue (Q1154710) (association or rugrby football stadium without athletics tracks a.k.a. soccer-specific stadium) with association football (Q2736) or rugby union (Q5849) specified in sport (P641). Both of them are subclasses of stadium with football pitch (Q105755471) with rugby (Q5378) (rugby football name in many languages allowed) being subclass of football codes (Q1081491). Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 17:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Поддерживаю идею Сидика из ПТУ (ru) – (Please translate this into English.). --Mitte27 (talk) 08:16, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Поддерживаю идею Сидика из ПТУ (ru) – (Please translate this into English.). --AleUst (talk) 17:10, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

 Support. --Erokhin (talk) 08:18, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Euro 2020

I just set up Wikidata:WikiProject Association football/Euro 2020.--Jklamo (talk) 08:19, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Wanted footballers

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football, Let's create these footballers on wikipedia. Boundghana (talk) 07:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Help P10001

Hello to everyone, I found a problem in inserting the ID of female players taken from the site of the Austrian federation please see the https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_Schiechtl and use the links present, the one that points to wikidata and the one put with the classic template cita web.--Threecharlie (talk) 21:59, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Problem to be solved for biographies of Austrian female football players

Hi all, not if anyone has already realized the problem, but the data entered here using Property:P10001 as a link leads to a male soccer player profile distorting the external link, see as example Q17386759 related to Nicole Billa (https://www.oefb.at/Profile/Spieler/410956?Nicole-Billa for club career, https://www.oefb.at/NT-Profile/Spieler/1004522?Nicole-Billa for national team career) which actually points to Viktor Hinterndorfer (https://www.oefb.at/Profile/Spieler/539101?Viktor-Hinterndorfer). Please give me a hand because the Austrian women's national team and related entries, given the results in the recent European championship, have a good number of hits and to provide a wrong link is embarrassing. Thank you for your attention :-) Threecharlie (talk) 08:04, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

We currently have two ways of modelling World Cup games, either using general teams ({Q|Q164134}}) or competition-specific teams (United States of America at the 2022 FIFA World Cup (Q111535586)); I think we should discuss that modelling better.

In my opinion, for SPARQL queries it is much easier to have the more general concept. And in general, we won't have "club X at competition Y" items, so modelling will be inconsistent across Wikidata, making queries harder.

I am open to change my mind with good arguments, of course. @Chabe01: you might be interested in the discussion, Best, TiagoLubiana (talk) 11:31, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Report for Wikipedia in Asturian

Hi all! I am interested in adding Asturian (Q29507) to the list of reports. How can I do it? So far I added ast to the configuration page. Is there anything else I can do? Should I just wait for the bot to create the report?

WFC
happy5214
Fawkesfr
Xaris333
A.Bernhard
Cekli829
Japan Football
HakanIST
Jmmuguerza
H4stings
Unnited meta
Grottem
Petro
Сидик из ПТУ
Sakhalinio
Gonta-Kun
CanadianCodhead
Laszaroh
Sherifkkvtm
Nicholas Gemini
TiagoLubiana
MythsOfAesop

Notified participants of WikiProject Association football

Thanks in advance. YoaR (talk) 06:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)