Property talk:P7383

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name in hiero markup
hieroglyphs written in Wikihiero syntax
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
  Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P7383#Allowed qualifiers, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
 
Format “[A-Za-z*<>\d\-:\\?()! _.]{2,1000}: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P7383#Format, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
 

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Translation parameterEdit

@Jura1: Two questions: 1) Where to hold the name and "translation or meaning" that appears in the manual parameters horus, horus_translation, nebty, nebty_translation, etc. in en:template:Infobox pharaoh ? (see en:Ramesses II, for instance). It should be a qualifier of this property because is diferent for each kind of hiero, and must be a monolingual text. I pourpose name (P2561) & literal translation (P2441). 2) In Ramesses II (Q1523) (and others) you just upload information for Horus and Nebty. Do you plan to upload Prenomen, Nomen and Golden? Thanks a lot, good job ! Amadalvarez (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

New qualifiers and use by wiki infoboxesEdit

Following the previous entry about translation/transcription of the hiero, I decide to use:

  • alternate names (P4970) to hold the transcription done from hiero. Any other name related properties (as the proposed P2561) need a language and the official transcription from hiero does not have. Instead P4970 is a text without language.
  • literal translation (P2441) to hold the translation of the official transcription that every language has done.

The exemple of this property (Thutmose III (Q157899)) is already updated.

Use within WPs

The <hiero>string</hiero> tags only run when the content is a "plain text", but not a variable like <hiero>{{{P7383fetched}}}</hiero>.

The new ca:template:Pharaon hiero draw handle the value of P7383 to convert to the hiero draw and also gather the cartutx treatement as several templates(*) did and may be replaced by this new one. (* Infobox pharaoh/Prenomen, ../Nomen, .../Serekh, ../Nebty, ../Golden)

A real application from WD is done in ca:Tuthmosis III infobox. Salut ! Amadalvarez (talk) 05:47, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Thanks, @Jura1:. I'm not sure if this is a name or some kind of motto text (P1451). I choose P2441 thinking that, perhaps, these mottos are a linguistic derivation from P4970 content. However, I'm not expert in pharaon's topic.
By the way, I'm filling WD from enwiki articles. I'm not uploading unicode information because, A) I'm not sure if information is correct right now, and B) I don't know which should be the property, if it exists. Opinion ?. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 11:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
@Amadalvarez: Sorry, I inverted alternate names (P4970)/literal translation (P2441) in my comment above. --- Jura 11:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
@Jura1: Ah. This was my initial idea, but... what's the language ?. The P4970 is a "string". The other related name properties are monolingual text and ask for a language "mandatory". I look for "transcription" because I understood is a transcription of the draw, but no one fits. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 14:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Maybe pronunciation (P7243)? --- Jura 14:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
It's a "monolingual text". It ask for a language, too. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Maybe with the special language code "und"? --- Jura 16:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Oh!. I did not know it. If we accept to use "und", then we can go back to inital idea: name (P2561). Do you agree?. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Sure. Maybe at some point someone wants to figure out more specific tags for this. Looking at Q3537433 and language tag, maybe und-Latn-t-egy-Egyp or en-t-egy-Egyp, fr-t-egy-Egyp, es-t-egy-Egyp, etc. could be correct. --- Jura 17:56, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Summarizing

The statements for the exemple, Thutmose III (Q157899), are:

name in hiero markup

Thutmose III

  E1:D40-N28-m-S40-t:O49
object has role Horus name
literal translation Mighty Bull, Arising in Thebes (en)
name Kanakht Khaemwaset (und)
0 references
add reference
  V29-sw-t-i-i-ra:Z1-mi-m-Q3*X1:N1
object has role Nebty name
literal translation Enduring in kingship like Re in heaven (en)
name Wahnesytmireempet (und)
0 references
add reference
  sxm-F9:F9-D45:N28-Z3
object has role Golden Horus name
literal translation Powerful of strength, holy of diadems (en)
name Sekhempahtydsejerkhaw (und)
0 references
add reference
  ra-mn-xpr
object has role Prenomen
literal translation Lasting is the Manifestation of Re (en)
name Menkheperre (und)
0 references
add reference
  G26-ms-nfr-xpr:Z2
object has role Nomen
literal translation Thoth is born, beautiful of forms (en)
name Thutmose Neferkheperu (und)
0 references
add reference


add value

Sometimes there are more than one entry by same object has role (P3831). It may be manage just as a multivalue, or complemented by a series ordinal (P1545) qualifier. For instance, Prenomen in Siptah (Q158059)

name in hiero markup

Siptah

  M23:t-L2:t-<-ra-s-xa:nN36-i-mn:n->
object has role Prenomen
name Sekhaienre Meryamun (und)
literal translation He whom Ra causes to appear, beloved of Amun (en)
series ordinal 1
0 references
add reference
  G39-N5-<-C2-F31-z:z-H8:Z1-p:t-H->
object has role Prenomen
series ordinal 2
name Akhenre Setepenre (und)
literal translation Beloved of Ptah, son of Ptah (en)
0 references
add reference


add value

Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 19:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Looks good. Maybe "series ordinal" could do instead of "applies to part". --- Jura 04:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
  • The "series ordinal" suggestion has been included in previous sample in order to left a "final structure" of statement as we agree in this discussion.Amadalvarez (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
OK, @Jura1: The "und" language, doesn't like to QuickStatements. Buff. Go to hand making it !. It will take a while from today. Salut ! Amadalvarez (talk) 12:21, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
"und" in CSV format per sample for "Monolingual text" with comma at Help:QuickStatements#Samples_by_value_type works [1]. --- Jura 09:46, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
@Jura1: Everything is fixed on items of Nineteenth & Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt filled by me. The "und" problem, disappeared. Today, it runs with same syntax. WD is a little bit crazy, lately. I sttoped by now with upload until I find a way to make it more "industrial". Thanks for your help. Amadalvarez (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
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