Property talk:P7383

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name in hiero markup
hieroglyphs written in Wikihiero syntax

Represents	hieroglyph (Q193762)
Data type	String
Template parameter	fr:Modèle:Palette Titulature dans l'Égypte antique: "hiero" - Q22783359 fr:Template:Hiero: "2" - Template:Hiero (Q5914701) en:Template:Infobox pharaoh: prenomen_hiero, nomen_hiero, horus_hiero, nebty_hiero, golden_hiero - Template:Infobox pharaoh (Q5623769) Template:Hiero/5Fold (Q20758025)
Allowed values	[A-Za-z*<>\d\-:\\?()! _.]{2,1000}
Usage notes	see w:Help:WikiHiero syntax for syntax
Example	Thutmose III (Q157899) → Thutmose III (Q157899) → Thutmose III (Q157899) → Thutmose III (Q157899) → Thutmose III (Q157899) →
See also	name (P2561), name (image) (P7407)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P7383 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 980 Main statement 927 94.6% of uses Qualifier 53 5.4% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Qualifiers “object has role (P3831), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), reason for preferred rank (P7452), name (P2561), literal translation (P2441), series ordinal (P1545)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P7383#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL

Format “[A-Za-z*<>\d\-:\\?()! _.]{2,1000}”: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P7383#Format, SPARQL

This property is being used by: c:Template:Wikidata Infobox ca:Plantilla:Infotaula persona2 Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Translation parameter

@Jura1: Two questions: 1) Where to hold the name and "translation or meaning" that appears in the manual parameters horus, horus_translation, nebty, nebty_translation, etc. in en:template:Infobox pharaoh ? (see en:Ramesses II, for instance). It should be a qualifier of this property because is diferent for each kind of hiero, and must be a monolingual text. I pourpose name (P2561) & literal translation (P2441). 2) In Ramesses II (Q1523) (and others) you just upload information for Horus and Nebty. Do you plan to upload Prenomen, Nomen and Golden? Thanks a lot, good job ! Amadalvarez (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

New qualifiers and use by wiki infoboxes

Following the previous entry about translation/transcription of the hiero, I decide to use:

• alternative name (P4970) to hold the transcription done from hiero. Any other name related properties (as the proposed P2561) need a language and the official transcription from hiero does not have. Instead P4970 is a text without language.
• literal translation (P2441) to hold the translation of the official transcription that every language has done.

The exemple of this property (Thutmose III (Q157899)) is already updated.

Use within WPs

The <hiero>string</hiero> tags only run when the content is a "plain text", but not a variable like <hiero>{{{P7383fetched}}}</hiero>.

The new ca:template:Pharaon hiero draw handle the value of P7383 to convert to the hiero draw and also gather the cartutx treatement as several templates(*) did and may be replaced by this new one. (* Infobox pharaoh/Prenomen, ../Nomen, .../Serekh, ../Nebty, ../Golden)

A real application from WD is done in ca:Tuthmosis III infobox. Salut ! Amadalvarez (talk) 05:47, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

• Congrats to the application on cawiki. Commons supports the property as well.
  alternative name (P4970) seems ok, but I don't think literal translation (P2441) is meant for that. Not sure what alternative to suggest though. name (P2561) is the default name property. --- Jura 11:20, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks, @Jura1:. I'm not sure if this is a name or some kind of motto text (P1451). I choose P2441 thinking that, perhaps, these mottos are a linguistic derivation from P4970 content. However, I'm not expert in pharaon's topic.

By the way, I'm filling WD from enwiki articles. I'm not uploading unicode information because, A) I'm not sure if information is correct right now, and B) I don't know which should be the property, if it exists. Opinion ?. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 11:47, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Amadalvarez: Sorry, I inverted alternative name (P4970)/literal translation (P2441) in my comment above. --- Jura 11:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

@Jura1: Ah. This was my initial idea, but... what's the language ?. The P4970 is a "string". The other related name properties are monolingual text and ask for a language "mandatory". I look for "transcription" because I understood is a transcription of the draw, but no one fits. Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 14:19, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Maybe pronunciation (P7243)? --- Jura 14:42, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

It's a "monolingual text". It ask for a language, too. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:02, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Maybe with the special language code "und"? --- Jura 16:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh!. I did not know it. If we accept to use "und", then we can go back to inital idea: name (P2561). Do you agree?. Amadalvarez (talk) 16:48, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Maybe at some point someone wants to figure out more specific tags for this. Looking at Q3537433 and language tag, maybe und-Latn-t-egy-Egyp or en-t-egy-Egyp, fr-t-egy-Egyp, es-t-egy-Egyp, etc. could be correct. --- Jura 17:56, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Summarizing

The statements for the exemple, Thutmose III (Q157899), are:

name in hiero markup Thutmose III	E1:D40-N28-m-S40-t:O49 edit object has role Horus name literal translation Mighty Bull, Arising in Thebes (en) name Kanakht Khaemwaset (und) 0 references add reference V29-sw-t-i-i-ra:Z1-mi-m-Q3*X1:N1 edit object has role Nebty name literal translation Enduring in kingship like Re in heaven (en) name Wahnesytmireempet (und) 0 references add reference sxm-F9:F9-D45:N28-Z3 edit object has role Golden Horus name literal translation Powerful of strength, holy of diadems (en) name Sekhempahtydsejerkhaw (und) 0 references add reference ra-mn-xpr edit object has role Prenomen literal translation Lasting is the Manifestation of Re (en) name Menkheperre (und) 0 references add reference G26-ms-nfr-xpr:Z2 edit object has role Nomen literal translation Thoth is born, beautiful of forms (en) name Thutmose Neferkheperu (und) 0 references add reference
		add value

Sometimes there are more than one entry by same object has role (P3831). It may be manage just as a multivalue, or complemented by a series ordinal (P1545) qualifier. For instance, Prenomen in Siptah (Q158059)

name in hiero markup Siptah	M23:t-L2:t-<-ra-s-xa:nN36-i-mn:n-> edit object has role Prenomen name Sekhaienre Meryamun (und) literal translation He whom Ra causes to appear, beloved of Amun (en) series ordinal 1 0 references add reference G39-N5-<-C2-F31-z:z-H8:Z1-p:t-H-> edit object has role Prenomen series ordinal 2 name Akhenre Setepenre (und) literal translation Beloved of Ptah, son of Ptah (en) 0 references add reference
		add value

Thanks, Amadalvarez (talk) 19:52, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Looks good. Maybe "series ordinal" could do instead of "applies to part". --- Jura 04:49, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

• The "series ordinal" suggestion has been included in previous sample in order to left a "final structure" of statement as we agree in this discussion.Amadalvarez (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

OK, @Jura1: The "und" language, doesn't like to QuickStatements. Buff. Go to hand making it !. It will take a while from today. Salut ! Amadalvarez (talk) 12:21, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

"und" in CSV format per sample for "Monolingual text" with comma at Help:QuickStatements#Samples_by_value_type works [1]. --- Jura 09:46, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jura1: Everything is fixed on items of Nineteenth & Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt filled by me. The "und" problem, disappeared. Today, it runs with same syntax. WD is a little bit crazy, lately. I sttoped by now with upload until I find a way to make it more "industrial". Thanks for your help. Amadalvarez (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)