Talk:Q110323267/Ancestral tree

• (archived copy)

See also

• Talk:Q110323267/Paternal line for claimed paternal descent from Henry John Taylor (Q76374587)
• Talk:Q110323267/Ancestral tree 2 for ancestors of earlier claimed generations

• and Talk:Q76364674 for claimed descendants from Fleming John Brisco (Q76364674); also Talk:Q76364677 for pair of descents from James Faulder (Q76364677)
• Talk:Q76115436 : Claimed ancestry of Eleanor Jane Faulder (Q76115436)

Snapshot of ancestral tree as it stood on 29 January 2022. Some of the items or links may since have been deleted or deprecated:

Actual

• John J Taylor (TP) : birth reg Oldham, Q4 1943 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV72-YL4X -- mother = Arnold
• John Graham Taylor (TP) : d. Lancashire, 2000 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZF-L5YG birth date given as 20 Jul 1923

  m. Dorothy Arnold (TP) : Southport, Q2 1946 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVD9-26H5

  b. ? Oldham, Q2 1924 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV3D-FXSW -- mother = Garside

  FamilySearch finds limited candidates for potential parents: [1]

  FreeBMD finds a few more, including Samuel Taylor = Sarah J Garside in Q1 1912 (Manchester) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:26CX-KY7 No Christine Garside however.

  Some other Taylor/Garside births in Oldham: Herbert Q1 1915; Robert Q1 1920; Doris Q4 1921; others elsewhere

• Diane Payne (TP) : b. Q1 1963 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVW9-JJWW / Macdurnald (but note marriage : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV64-SDK9)

  her brother Lionel Payne (TP) : b. Q2 1948 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVQR-THBS / Macdonald

• Brenda Joan Payne (TP) : b. 19 Sep 1920; d. 1977 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCR-K6BW
  • Liverpool Echo, Tuesday 22 November 1977 : BRENDA JOAN PAYNE. the dearly loved wife of Albert. loving mothrr of Brenda. I ionel Zeni. and Diane. and a des ea, d Mina. Service at St. Cuthbers Much, Southport, Wednesday. November 23, 1.30 p.m.. followed .
• Albert L Payne (TP) = Brenda J Macdonald Q3 1946 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVDS-NFP8

• Lionel J Payne (TP) = Elsie Fish (TP) 1913 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:26Z7-G7L

• Gertrude Sandbach Heaps (TP) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9CBZ-HXN

• William Walter Heaps (TP) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9VVQ-VJM

William Walter Heaps = Ann Brisco, Q1 1874 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFF2-6CC?treeref=9VVQ-VJM

Child: Gertrude Sanbach Heaps https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N17Z-GQM

His actual parents appear to have been John Christopher Heaps and Alice, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7LS-25J

I haven't been able to find any trace of a John William Heaps (TP) and Elizabeth Strawbridge (TP)

• Ann Brisco (TP) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LW8N-483
• John Brisco (cf TP) : https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LW6H-ZWB = Sarah Richardson, not Sarah Sandbach;

also no trace of the Musgrave middle name associated with the Brisco family of Crofton Hall marking their descent from Catherine Musgrave (Q75498097)

but child Henry Richardson Brisco had grandson Arthur Faulder Brisco

This actual John Brisco was a joiner, not a grandee, the son of a Joseph Brisco from Wigton in Cumberland and Nanny Faulder (see below).

• Fleming John Brisco (TP) : may have existed https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MH4H-CRM

FamilySearch has a 1781 baptism that fits https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWF2-X4C cf also transcript [2] and pedigree [3]

There's also an 1840 memorial inscription https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W3KH-Y5W2 / Find-a-Grave / Gentleman's Magazine

Unclear whether any of the rest of the TP entry checks out -- but claimed date of death is wrong. Horton Coote Brisco (d.1825) was at Eton in 1793 [4], but there's no sign of a Fleming Brisco. Various Briscos are listed in Alumni Oxonienses, but not Fleming [5]. On the other hand, Fleming is in Alumni Cantabrigienses, which says he went to Charterhouse, and then Trinity (admitted 1801). [6]

He published a book of epigrams and rhymes in 1807. [7]

• Nanny Faulder (cf TP) = Joseph Brisco https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GD9V-B8V

Would appear to be born 1780, with actual parents Joseph Faulder = Mary Cartmer, of Crosscanonby

FamilySearch offers nothing for the claimed James Faulder (TP) = Alice Ambrose (TP), nor for her supposed father William Ambrose (TP)

See Talk:Q76364677 for downward examination of claimed descendents of James Faulder

• Sarah Sandbach (TP) : not married to John Brisco, whose wife was Sarah Richardson

There was a Sarah Sandbach FS who was the second wife of John Christopher Heaps, father of William Walter Heaps : m. 1865 [8]. She may more likely be the source of Gertrude's middle name.

She could be the Sarah Heaps b. abt 1830 who died in 1866: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2V9V-8XG?treeref=G893-K56 Heaps described himself as a widower in the 1871 census

She was born about 1830, and her father was John Sandbach -- no source for this ?

The tree claims Sarah is https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/G893-K56 (b. 1827), the daughter of John Sandbach = Ann Dutton FS:[9] -- but nb no source at FS

Another possibility could be Sarah (b. 1830, Liverpool), dau of John Sandbach = Mary Heliker https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9HSP-3KL