Gerarus
Joined 9 April 2018
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Gerarus in topic Special:Diff/1843065691
Welcome to Wikidata, Gerarus!
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Also Special:Diff/1841723704/1843064406. See previous comments in Talk:Q2174038 as well as Talk:Q191. Item Estonia (Q191) is about the country that gained independence in 1918. 2001:7D0:81FD:BC80:2455:88D0:BF78:9D62 07:26, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Colleague, thank you for showing discussions about the statehood of Estonia and other countries with a difficult history. I do not consider it right to enter there with my opinion, because it is mainly about the intricacies of the transition from one jurisdiction to another and vice versa. One participant expresses doubt that the drama of these countries can be fully reflected with the help of Wikidata, and in this he is perhaps right.
My task is in a completely different plane, it is applied: while editing two people's wiki articles of citizens of Estonia, I brought the parameters in their Wikidata in line with their biographies, where they were born, worked and then died. By territory, this is one country Estonia, yes, but in the same Russian-language Wikipedia about each of the periods of its history, a separate article with the corresponding title was created. And in the time span of a particular person's life, it is not indifferent to the name of the state in which he lived - such nuances is exactly what the pages I edited now reflect with the help of Wikidata. I think everything could be stated more concisely, but it turned out as it happened. Sorry. – Gerarus (talk) 22:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Even ru:Эстонская Республика (1918—1940) in its definition says that the article subject is a period in Estonian history not another country, and neither does ru:Эстония seem to limit its subject to post-Soviet era. So accordingly it would seem more appriprite to link the latter article in this these particular biography artices, too. Anyway, then you don't mind linking Q191 in statements where the country is meant, right? 2001:7D0:81FD:BC80:6102:612C:547:4390 09:52, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, Q2174038 is a special case of Q191, as is also Q130280. But let's get back to the people who caused our dispute - I indicated the citizenship of the particular period of the country when a person lived in it, and not a more general concept that does not take into account the historical context. And this is not some kind of disregard for the country Q191, but for the person Q44155717, on the contrary, is an important clarification, concretization. (Detailed is always preferable to more general concepts, isn't it?) In addition, Q44155717 died before Q191 gained sovereignty, so declaring him a citizen of Q191 is simply incorrect. After all there was Q2174038 mark in his passport. - Gerarus (talk) 21:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- I don't quite follow. As mentioned, Q191 is about the country that gained independence in 1918. This in indicated in Q191 item and it seems to be also indicated in ruwiki article. In these terms it isn't incorrect to claim a person who died before 1991 was citizen of Q191. In 1991 the independence was restored (see referenced talks pages and over there references to state continuity of the Baltic states in particular). Q44155717 was likely an Estonian citizen, but I don't see why'd think that Q2174038 rather than Q191 was marked in his passport.
- Country and period in its history are different types of entities, and so as far as Q2174038 is for period in Estonian history I don't quite see how it can be considered a special case of Q191. Neither is Q130280 really a special case of Q191. Q130280 was a subdivision of another country, formed in the territoy of Q191 and parallel to Q191. 2001:7D0:81FD:BC80:6949:8E07:AEBE:87C3 07:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- I replaced Q2174038 with Q191, let's consider our discussion complete. - Gerarus (talk) 21:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- Even ru:Эстонская Республика (1918—1940) in its definition says that the article subject is a period in Estonian history not another country, and neither does ru:Эстония seem to limit its subject to post-Soviet era. So accordingly it would seem more appriprite to link the latter article in this these particular biography artices, too. Anyway, then you don't mind linking Q191 in statements where the country is meant, right? 2001:7D0:81FD:BC80:6102:612C:547:4390 09:52, 2 March 2023 (UTC)