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Previous discussion was archived at User talk:TomT0m/Archive 1 on 2015-08-10.

Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talkcontribs)
Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talkcontribs)

I noticed on Property talk:P2738 that you proposed a "disjoint" property. What happened to that proposal?

EDIT: Sorry it wasn't you who proposed the property.

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

I still think it's a not so good idea :) This property should do the trick in most if not all cases with less redundancy risks.

Reply to ""disjoint" property"

Could your classification script provide a direct link to the query?

Summary by TomT0m

Already possible, I should write a documentation at some point.

Swpb (talkcontribs)

I make a lot of use of your script, but instead of constantly starting discussions on WikiProject Ontology, I usually fix the incorrect statements myself. That means copy-pasting the query URL from the auto-generated discussion section without hitting publish. I love the option of starting a discussion for tricky cases, but it would also be nice to get to the query from the item with one click, without having to start a discussion. Could you add that link to the script output, please? Thanks!

This post was hidden by Bouzinac (history)
TomT0m (talkcontribs)

I think what you want is already possible, click on the arrow on the left or elsewhere on the rectangle and the query results will show on the details

Swpb (talkcontribs)

Ah, so it is! Thanks!

PMG (talkcontribs)

What is exactly difference between fr:Javeline and fr:Javelot? One is "all such weapons" and second is "this is only about Roman times weapon"?

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

The frwiki article is rather short, but a bit of search gives the answer that the javeline is usually shorter and is used also as a hand weapon.

Translation by google translate of https://www.euraldic.com/lasu/tx/txt_la1905_armes.html this page :

« Polearm or throwing weapon that can be handled like a short pike or thrown like a javelin. The Javeline consists of wood, a sharp leaf-shaped iron, a metal heel, which can serve as a counterweight, and often this heel ends in a long, sharp point. The javelin is a weapon used at all times, in all countries, and that the blacks of Africa, especially in Ethiopia, still carry today, with the round shield, exactly like the Greek peltasts. The usual length of the weapon is 1.50 meters. But the javelins carried by the horsemen were longer, reaching up to 4 meters, like the spears or gay spears of the Stradiots, in the 16th century. The Frankish Framée, the Dardes of the Middle Ages were Javelines. These weapons disappear, with the XVth century, in the infantry. The Spanish genetaires, the Greek and Albanian Stradiots, the Turks and the Hungarians, however, continued to wear them. Lancers' spears, like those of modern Uhlans and dragoons, are Javelins. The name "spear" must be reserved for the large polearm, 5.50 meters to 7 meters long, which was handled with the Faucre. »

PMG (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Javeline merge"
SM5POR (talkcontribs)

Phew! I greatly appreciate the information you provided; that cleared up a lot for me! I wish I had known this when I began trying out some Lua code of my own at Swedish WP two years ago. Anyway, I didn't get very far with that, which is just as well, as I can now readjust my efforts in case I find time to continue that work.

By the way, you mentioned reverse (inverse) properties, something I'd like to avoid. What are the chances that Wikipedia infoboxes and other widgets will some day be able to look up things like ?sense wdt:P5137 wd:Q482980 or similar themselves rather than depend on Wikidata editors to specify female form of label (P2521) in a few hundred languages for each profession mentioned in a WP article? If there is an ongoing transition process, what can we do to help speed it up? We have an entire section of Wikidata devoted to lexemes, but Wikipedia seems to require those to be duplicated in Q-item space for lack of an inverse lookup function, which I consider an utterly wasted effort hindering Wikidata development.

I have updated my personal page User:SM5POR#Current work to illustrate what kind of agenda I follow for my involvement with Wikidata.

Reply to "Transitivity and inheritance"
VIGNERON (talkcontribs)


Vu que tu as soulevé la question pour les deux lexèmes "key" (et les deux Lexèmes key (L1131) et key (L684194)), je me demandais si il ne serait pas utile de préciser la définition de ce qu'est un lexème (la définition sur Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation est très courte et pas forcément évidente pour les non-lexicographes).

Qu'en penses-tu ? et de quelle façon prendrais-tu cette définition ?

Reply to "Définition d'un lexème"
Envlh (talkcontribs)

Bonjour TomT0m,

Merci beaucoup pour tes modifications sur les lexèmes :)

Pour la création de nouveaux lexèmes, je te conseille d'utiliser Wikidata Lexeme Forms, qui permet de renseigner très rapidement les informations de base, en particulier pour les substantifs (genre, formes au singulier et au pluriel).

Pour les lexèmes existants, je te conseille d'activer le gadget lexeme-forms, qui crée des liens dans la colonne de gauche vers les formulaires correspondants de cet outil.

Bon week-end.

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Merci du renseignement ! Je savais que ça existait et j’avais même activé le gadget dans mes prefs mais pas encore trouvé le lien. J’ai du l’utiliser ce week-end pour la première fois.

Il manque des langues par contre, je vais voir pour en rajouter avec Lucas

Reply to "Lexèmes"

Déploiement de Item documentation

PAC2 (talkcontribs)

Bonjour TomT0m,

Je me souviens que tu avais lancé le débat sur le bistro de déployer le template {{Item documentation}} sur MediaWiki:Talkpageheader. Est-ce que la discussion a abouti ? Ce serait pas mal qu'on trouve un consensus parce que là on hésite entre Talkpageheader et déploiement manuel sur les pages de discussion et du coup on n'avance pas. Perso, je crois vraiment au potentiel de ce modèle. PAC2 (talk) 05:53, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

J’en suis resté à ce stade aussi, il me semble qu’on était pas nombreux a être intervenu dans la discussion sur le bistro, mais qu’il n’y avait pas vraiment d’opposition.

On pourrait faire une DIPP, ça déclencherait sans doute plus de discussions.

(Et pour le problème de la découvrabilité, il est tout à fait possible d’insérer un lien « Cette documentation est générée par {{Item documentation}}, (lien vers) modifier le modèle ».

PAC2 (talkcontribs)

qu'est ce que tu entends par DIPP ?

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Sur frwiki c’est « demande d’intervention sur une page protégée ». Une requête aux admins ici sinon, je sais pas si il y a un équivalent.

PAC2 (talkcontribs)

Oui ce serait une idée. Sinon on relance une request for comments. Je trouve que c'est pas toujours facile de mobiliser la communauté sur Wikidata pour trancher des points de discussion.

PAC2 (talkcontribs)

Hello, je ne suis pas sûr de bien comprendre l'intérêt de la manipulation de renommage sur Item documentation.

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Je devrai préciser la procédure directement.

L’idée c’est que 1) tu commences par renommer « Item Documentation » en gardant un redirect, par exemple « Item Documentation -> Item Documentation 2» 2) tu blanchies la page redirigée « Item Documentation ».

Du coup l’historique est conservé sur « Item Documentation 2 », puisque ça te posait problème.

Ensuite il suffit de restaurer la redirection et/ou de faire le renommage inverse en écrasant la redirection pour restaurer l’état initial.

Reply to "Déploiement de Item documentation"
Madelgarius (talkcontribs)

Toujours sympathique de se faire reverter. tu peux dès lors corriger le modèle Modèle:Databox pour que l'infoboite apparaisse avec une majuscule dans l'article sur fr:WP et faire en sorte que la légende apparaisse sous l'illustration.

TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Bonjour, il y a eu une discussion sur le bistro de Wikipédia, j’ai voulu te pinguer mais j’ai raté mon ping désolé.

Le revert était là pour que tu aies l’info, en cas de changement inverse on est pas notifié … c’est vrai que c’est désagréable parfois mais ce n’est pas le but, désolé.

La modif est faite dans le module.

Madelgarius (talkcontribs)

je t'absous ;-)

Reply to "Inondation"
Photocyte (talkcontribs)

Hi there TomTom, you recently reverted my good-faith addition to this page without notification to me that this was your choice:


I expect you did this because you thought the discussion being closed, means no more edits could happen to that page. However, please note the instructions on the page say (my bolding):

"The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows."

"The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section."

I am not an expert in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_interpretation , but, clearly the "it" that should not be modified, is the "discussion", that my question was below, not the overall page. And, it recommends a new section, not a new page. Do you have any advice on another page where I could post this question? Or do you agree that my undo-ing your undo & allowing for folks to respond on that page, is appropriate?

Reply to "Undo-ing of discussion on RFC"
Bouzinac (talkcontribs)

Hello, je ne sais pas si tu te souviens de cette requête mais elle ne semble plus marcher, une idée ? :

select ?country (group_concat(?NatureLabelFr;separator=" ,") as ?NatureLabelFr) ?countryLabel  ?creationDate ?dissolutionDate
with {
select ?country (coalesce(?countryLabelFr, ?countryLabelEn,  ?country) as ?countryLabel) ?creationDate ?dissolutionDate{
?country wdt:P31/wdt:P279* wd:Q3624078 # sovereign states, I don’t know if it’s the right item
MINUS { ?country (wdt:P31/wdt:P279*) wd:Q1790360. }#empires coloniaux
MINUS { ?country (wdt:P31/wdt:P279*) wd:Q1371288. } #états vassals
optional { ?country rdfs:label ?countryLabelFr filter(lang(?countryLabelFr)= "fr")} .
optional { ?country rdfs:label ?countryLabelEn filter(lang(?countryLabelEn)= "en")}
optional { ?country wdt:P571 ?creationDate }
optional { ?country wdt:P576 ?dissolutionDate }
} order by ?countryLabel
} as %datas
where {
include %datas .
?country wdt:P31/rdfs:label ?NatureLabelFr filter(lang(?NatureLabelFr)= "fr") .
} group by ?country ?countryLabel  ?creationDate ?dissolutionDate
Try it!
TomT0m (talkcontribs)

Oui, cf. https://query.wikidata.org/#select%20%3Fcountry%20%28group_concat%28%3FNatureLabelFr%3Bseparator%3D%22%20%2C%22%29%20as%20%3FNatureLabel%29%20%3FcountryLabel%20%20%3FcreationDate%20%3FdissolutionDate%0Awith%20%7B%0Aselect%20%3Fcountry%20%28coalesce%28%3FcountryLabelFr%2C%20%3FcountryLabelEn%2C%20%20%3Fcountry%29%20as%20%3FcountryLabel%29%20%3FcreationDate%20%3FdissolutionDate%7B%0A%3Fcountry%20wdt%3AP31%2Fwdt%3AP279%2a%20wd%3AQ3624078%20%23%20sovereign%20states%2C%20I%20don%E2%80%99t%20know%20if%20it%E2%80%99s%20the%20right%20item%0AMINUS%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20%28wdt%3AP31%2Fwdt%3AP279%2a%29%20wd%3AQ1790360.%20%7D%23empires%20coloniaux%0AMINUS%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20%28wdt%3AP31%2Fwdt%3AP279%2a%29%20wd%3AQ1371288.%20%7D%20%23%C3%A9tats%20vassals%0Aoptional%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FcountryLabelFr%20filter%28lang%28%3FcountryLabelFr%29%3D%20%22fr%22%29%7D%20.%0Aoptional%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20rdfs%3Alabel%20%3FcountryLabelEn%20filter%28lang%28%3FcountryLabelEn%29%3D%20%22en%22%29%7D%0Aoptional%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20wdt%3AP571%20%3FcreationDate%20%7D%0Aoptional%20%7B%20%3Fcountry%20wdt%3AP576%20%3FdissolutionDate%20%7D%0A%7D%20order%20by%20%3FcountryLabel%0A%7D%20as%20%25datas%0Awhere%20%7B%0Ainclude%20%25datas%20.%0Aoptional%7B%0A%3Fcountry%20wdt%3AP31%2Frdfs%3Alabel%20%3FNatureLabelFr%20filter%28lang%28%3FNatureLabelFr%29%3D%20%22fr%22%29%20.%0A%7D%0A%7D%20group%20by%20%3Fcountry%20%3FcountryLabel%20%20%3FcreationDate%20%3FdissolutionDate

Reply to "Ancienne requête"