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User talk:Tris T7

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Artoxx (talkcontribs)
Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

Hello

It's done. Let me know if that ok. Q7687764

Regards,

Tris T7

Artoxx (talkcontribs)

Thank you very much. It is indeed OK. Yours sincerely, Artoxx (talk) 17:26, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Reply to "Category"
Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

Are you sure that the aliases you are adding to various items in different languages are actually necessary?

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

sure as i believed it will be knowledge to the person who learning about alphabet. What do you think ? I am from thailand without those aliases i would not know that a has aliase this much

  • Ey
  • a
  • Alfa
  • Alpha
  • ˈə
  • first alphabet in english
  • เอ
  • อักษรเอ
  • อักษรตัวแรกในภาษาอังกฤษ
  • Aittyn
  • အေ Billions people still not know this and perhaps what i added would shown on the top left of an article A because many still not know wikidata but known wikipedia.
  • Please kindly let me know what do you think about what i have done.
  • Aliases area are there for this reason this what i am sure about it. but if i did it wrong i am happy to redo all back to older version.
  • Thank you
  • Best
  • Tris T.
Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

I am glad that you care about the accessibility of the knowledge in Wikidata items, but the way you're going about it probably needs improvement. Let's go through your proposed list of aliases for A (Q9659):

  • "a" might be necessary, being the lowercase equivalent to the uppercase letter, but I have not seen any indication that it definitely will be, especially since Wikidata searches do not depend on letter case.
  • "Alfa" may well be the term a given language uses to refer to that label, but certainly not in English. "Alpha" is better suited as an alias for the Greek letter Α (Q9887) (which it already is).
  • "ᴬ" and "ᴀ" can probably stay as aliases, though I'm not sure if English is the best language for them.
  • "first alphabet in english", in addition to being incorrect English, is not appropriate as an alias. It may be appropriate for a description, though "A" as a letter is used in far more languages than just English.
  • "อักษรตัวแรกในภาษาอังกฤษ" may be better as a Thai description (though I do not speak Thai and thus cannot fully evaluate it, a Google Translate shows the same problem as the other description-like alias--namely, that "A" is used in far more languages than just English).
  • "เอ" and "อักษรเอ", although I cannot fully evaluate them as I stated previously, may be better as Thai aliases.
  • "એ", "အေ", and "Aittyn" are probably better as Gujarati, Burmese, and Manx aliases, not as English ones.

Hope these tips help. Also read Help:Aliases for more information.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

are this consensus from global community or from only you sir ?

Just wondering

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

Most other experienced users of Wikidata, including most other admins, would give you exactly the advice that I just gave you.

I strongly urge you not to add aliases the way you've been doing it for many languages all at once. Feel free to let me know if you have more questions.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

Perhaps you didn't catch what i said that i said i will redo all by myself when we have consensus from community

but you keeping revert what i did without any good reason to understand it yet.

I am kindly request you to stop what you are doing for moment until we get consensus from community can we agree on this ?

Thank you

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

Oh, I completely understand what you are intending to do, and by all means I support your intention, but (to give you some examples) it is useless for someone who doesn't know Arabic/Persian/Urdu to see "(عدد)" (the word in each of those languages for "number") in a list of English aliases for a specific number such as 162 (Q290532). Similarly it is pointless for a monolingual Czech, Portuguese, or Romanian speaker to see "first alphabet in english" in a list of aliases for those languages, or for monolingual Quechua, Russian, or Slovak speakers to see "lizard" in a list of aliases for those languages. It simply will not be as meaningful for them. The main problem I had, and which I was in part trying to rectify via reverts, was simply that you were putting aliases intended for different languages all in the list of English aliases, and you were putting English aliases in other languages' alias lists.

In your own interest in finding consensus, you are welcome to ask on Wikidata:Project chat whether lowercase letters should be aliases for their uppercase equivalents and await responses from the community there, but please do not just add them by yourself like that.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

useless is that polite way of you to speak to others ?

just wondering ?

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

the reason I added English for lizard because English are international language that my reason to added lizard in English only same as "a" "b" "c" and not in others language in aliases don't you think ?

I would add "เอ" for A in all language if what you trying to point my support to wrong concept of support.

Thank you.

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

Just because English is an international language does not mean other languages need to borrow aliases from English as an acknowledgment of that status. There is a difference between the language-neutral 'a', 'b', and 'c', which many other languages equally reliably incorporate into their alphabets if they use a Latin-derived script, and the English word "lizard", which is tied to English more strongly by virtue of being a word in English. 'a', 'b', and 'c' may well be used as aliases in numerous languages written in a Latin-derived script (again, and as I noted above, if there is any indication that it is necessary), but unless certain languages use exactly the English word lizard to refer to that suborder order of reptile, speakers of those languages will not find use of the English word lizard in a list of aliases for those languages.

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

I was not trying to be impolite there; I was not calling you useless, nor was I calling your edits in themselves useless. I am simply noting that a person who only speaks English and does not speak Arabic or Persian or Urdu will not find any use of the alias "(عدد)" in the alias list for Q290532; first, because they can't determine what it is supposed to signify, and second (if they do find out what it signifies) will question whether the word for 'number' (i.e. the word, not the specific number '162') in those languages should be present at all in the English alias list.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

then that reason for them to check out further on wikidata by click it and not just read only Wikipedia article of what they already knew about number in their language that the meaning of knowledge we all trying to exchange here.

same as V for 5 and X for 10 should be aliases for all languages that what I think but we need to get conclusion from community not just from one of us or both of us.

Thank you

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

As I said before, you are welcome to go on Wikidata:Project chat and seek such a consensus for anything about which you have questions.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

I just wish person who question someone contributions at lease should have consensus from community.

may I asked how did you edited over million contributions ? and mostly on what subject or topic ?

I am running advertising agency in Thailand so I have got of images to contributions here but just start this year perhaps you can guide me to next level. also I am translation Meta-wiki for thai version as well and trying to get it done. and i am planning to support and get Thai Chapter setup as well. as you are one of person i have not seen often for this much edited. so if you can kindly teach me to get to know more for wiki data so i can learn to do things properly here.

Please kindly let me know if you have sometime to give me some of your expertise.

Best

Tris T.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

one more question if it for english aliases then perhaps in english should not have greek or latin alphabet in all wikidata of english part is that what you gave me conclusion ?

Hope you understand my point of contribution not Vandalism so to block me are not enough reason when i said i am happy to revert by myself no need to spend your time on it as this can be case study for Fabricator project for admin and patroll rights to appoint to community for developer if new user got block for such reason i have done.

the only reason should be at A data and i added aliases b or i continue to change after consensus from community.

i hope you knew all of this policy and hope we can be friendly to this community. so others who read our conversation can do the same way when they have the same discussion about similar case.

thank you

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

Indeed, English labels should not necessarily be in Greek or Latin, though the main reason an exception is made for letters is that they can refer to themselves in any language; we only really add aliases such as 'Alpha' to items like Α (Q9887) to make them easier to search for.

(Not sure what to make of your second paragraph, but) I and other admins have had bad experiences with people who do not acknowledge messages on their talk page and continue with activities they have been explicitly told not to continue doing, so the fact that you are communicating now is quite pleasant in comparison. You don't have to worry about a block so long as you continue this sort of dialogue about your potential edits and their consequences.

We should all take steps to make the Wikidata community a friendly community for everyone, but that starts with communication, as you can well see.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

so why most of them not edit wikipedia to wikimedia as i did earlier for template a few hour ago ? and that i am sure if you knew all projects are part of Wikimedia foundation .

Thank you

Mahir256 (talkcontribs)

I am aware of a few bots that make this change (Wikipedia -> Wikimedia) periodically, so that in principle you don't have to worry about changing it yourself.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)
Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

That what I am asking myself why board of committee of foundation don't get all of this done for many year ago and left it blank or empty for description area of most of important part. but perhaps that reason why some board has left the foundation and new board stepped in and One who understood the correct concept of giving knowledge would continue mission until now.

here some of idea of guideline from apache community for general guideline and I hope you already knew it.

  • Assume that the other party agrees more than disagrees with you. We tend to leave out agreements and focus on differences. Sometime this is forgotten and escalation becomes absurd for no rational reason.
  • When in doubt, assume that you are interpreting the message wrongly and kindly ask for verification that you understood a particular topic well.
  • When writing, assume that every sentence will be misinterpreted. Review and try to reformulate to be as clear as possible.
  • Use a submissive tone in all writing. Instead of the strong "In my opinion, we must..." or the quite neutral "I think we should...", try to use "Maybe we should consider..." or "Another idea that we could..."
  • If you disagree strongly with an email sent, tag it Important, then put it aside. Read it half a day later again. Put it aside. Read it again next day, and then it is easier to write a balanced and inviting response, instead of the initial vitriol that flows through us when we get upset. I found that sometimes a response wouldn't be necessary, as the importance was actually much lower than originally perceived, and I would be able to work "with", instead of "against", a given change.
  • Be forgiving and accept different priorities. The other person is not out to get you or attack your work. More often than not, it is one of the above (a-d) that are failing, or that the other person prioritize some aspect higher than you do. Sometimes, this requires compromises, sometimes not and the different priorities can co-exist.
  • Remember that everyone works on Apache projects as a volunteer. People have jobs and lives outside of their Apache projects, and may need more time to even read messages on the list or respond. Be patient.

Anyway. let me create project of this case to Phabricator community.

Thank you again for your response.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

One more when you say Most other experienced users of Wikidata, including most other admins, would give you exactly the advice that I just gave you. you should add this issue to Vote for consensus but not speak under your own opinion if i found someone who did the same thing as i did i would give reason and references and link to give them knowledge instead of what you just revert when i already said i am happy to undo all by myself if i got it all wrong and that the way to learn for new user instead of block them don't you think ?

Thank you

Infovarius (talkcontribs)

As a Russian native speaker I confirm that we aren't happy to see English (or any other language other than Russian) in Russian labels, descriptions or aliases. English words should stay at English labels/desc/aliases, Russian at Russian, and Thai at Thai labels/desc/aliases. That's the way it usually should be.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

Hello my name is Tri. How are you ? Can you be more specific for which item are you talking about ? such as "A" i added alias a as "A" also known as "a" and as common sense i did all language without asking permission because of this work has to be done. And i need to get response from all Sysop around the world from all language and so far only Hungarian and Russian Sysop response back comments and India user but i gave examples until it cleared to them and need to get my research to proposal i am making to create new Project.

The way it usually should be not always correct so it need movement and improvement so if you would like to support as contributor for provide knowledge to others please kindly let me know here are some example of initial stage question.


  1. Please kindly provide aliases of A - Z in Russian language as much as you can
  2. Please kindly provide aliases of 0-9 in Russian language as much as you can
  3. Please kindly provide aliases of word "Plants" "Animals"
  4. Please kindly provided alias of word "Species" "Genus" and "Family" that use for Taxonomy.

Thank you for support.

Tri.

Reply to "Aliases"
Fuzheado (talkcontribs)
Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

Hello Is that Consensus from community or just yours ? and earlier message you sent that the most polite way to talk to contributor ? so please let me know i will added discussion about this case to community. as common sense symbol i added appeared in google search for Mercury Planet and in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_symbols Is this Article is Garbage as well ?

Let me know so i can step further for development as case study in Phabricator.

Thank you

Tris.

P.s. nicer tone for more welcome contributor would be nice.

Tris T7 (talkcontribs)

WP:PILLARS

Wikipedia's editors should treat each other with respect and civility Shortcut
Respect your fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree. Apply Wikipedia etiquette, and don't engage in personal attacks. Seek consensus, avoid edit wars, and never disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Act in good faith, and assume good faith on the part of others. Be open and welcoming to newcomers. Should conflicts arise, discuss them calmly on the appropriate talk pages, follow dispute resolution procedures, and consider that there are 5,769,159 other articles on the English Wikipedia to improve and discuss.
Fuzheado (talkcontribs)

There was no personal attack if you read the comment, so I will only apologize for the use of "garbage." With some time and observation, I'm now coming to realize better what you intended to do. But I still assert it is a bad practice. For example, for the item, you already have notation (P913)->Mercury symbol (Q3594850) and astronomic symbol image (P367) that indicate that symbol as the one for Mercury. It is not needed and it is undesirable to repeat this 200 some times for all the languages. It is simply not the right place to put them, and it is not expected of folks whatsoever.

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