Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

< Wikidata:Property proposal


Property proposal: Generic Authority control Person Organization
Creative work Place Sports Sister projects
Transportation Natural science Computing Lexeme

See also edit

This page is for the proposal of new properties.

Before proposing a property

  1. Search if the property already exists.
  2. Search if the property has already been proposed.
  3. Check if you can give a similar label and definition as an existing Wikipedia infobox parameter, or if it can be matched to an infobox, to or from which data can be transferred automatically.
  4. Select the right datatype for the property.
  5. Read Wikidata:Creating a property proposal for guidelines you should follow when proposing new property.
  6. Start writing the documentation based on the preload form below by editing the two templates at the top of the page to add proposal details.

Creating the property

  1. Once consensus is reached, change status=ready on the template, to attract the attention of a property creator.
  2. Creation can be done 1 week after the creation of the proposal, by a property creator or an administrator.
  3. See property creation policy.

On this page, old discussions are archived. An overview of all archives can be found at this page's archive index. The current archive is located at 2024/05.


Person edit

Picture of this person doing their job edit

   Under discussion
Descriptionpicture of a person in action, especially for a sportsperson, visual artist, musican, actor. P18 is normally used for portraits
Data typeCommons media file
DomainQ5
Example 1Chiara Kreuzer (Q5331554) = 20190226 Seefeld SJ 4720.jpg
Example 2Jakob Eiksund Sæthre (Q87721657) → File:20200222_FIS_NC_COC_Eisenerz_PRC_HS109_Men_Jakob_Eiksund_Saethre_850_4504.jpg
Example 3María Ólafsdóttir (Q19264382) = file:20150516 ESC 2015 Maria Olafs 9813.jpg
Example 4Cornelia Kreuter (Q87345351) = file:20190315 Dancing Stars 1100.jpg
Example 5Lars Ulrich (Q106193) = file:Lars Ulrich live in London 2008-09-15.jpg
Example 6Angela Merkel (Q567) = file:President Joe Biden meets with German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the G7 Summit.jpg
SourceCommons:Category:People
See alsosubproperty of Property:P18 ; Property:P109, Property:P1801, Property:P1442, Property:P5775

Motivation edit

In general, these are better stored in a separate property than in image (P18). The image could be used in wikidata infoboxes on Commons similar to Property:P109, Property:P1801, Property:P1442, Property:P5775 --Z thomas (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

  Support --M2k~dewiki (talk) 23:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Oppose I personally don't see the benefit of the property. I can't understand the intention of the image then being displayed in the Wikidata info box either. You have gallery pages on Commons to show stuff like that. --Gymnicus (talk) 08:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The images are shown in the wikidata Infobox. This is shown in the commons cat, the gallery pages is something different Z thomas (talk) 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For example the usage of many different pictures in the wikidata Infobox C:Category:Berlin Greetings Z thomas (talk) 21:07, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Support If possible, the image (P18) should always be a portrait. But why not also a picture of the person in his or her typical working environment (athlete, dancer, actress). Similar to buildings, several views are useful (nighttime view (P3451), image of design plans (P3311), image of interior (P5775), schematic (P5555), aerial view (P8592),). --sk (talk) 15:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Support --Lutzto (talk) 16:44, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Support --Derbrauni (talk) 12:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Support Seems quite reasonable to me. For many professions and activities you cannot see the face of the person when this person is doing their job, - at the same time it's quite obvious to have a picture of the person dancing if they are a dancer. Ideally infoboxes could allow customers to switch between these two images. Андрей Романенко (talk) 15:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Oppose Did any of the people casting support votes even read the label? Having a property that addresses the person in a gendered way (his) seems to be an automatic no. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Not done, @Z thomas, M2k~dewiki, عُثمان, Gymnicus, Stefan Kühn, Lutzto: @Derbrauni, Андрей Романенко, ChristianKl: no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 06:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I strongly oppose this decision. According to Wikidata:Property creation, It is the job of the property creator to weigh consensus. The mere fact that there were three opposing votes against five votes in favour does not tell anything about the reasonable consensus. The objection of the colleague ChristianKl can be easily solved by renaming the proposed property into Picture of this person doing their job (English is not the mother tongue for the author of the proposal, their original German name of the property does not have this problem). Two other objections just read as "I don't understand why we need it"; in the meantime a clear explanation of why we need it is provided. According to Wikidata:Property creation, All opposing points of discussion should be addressed before creation occurs - this is exactly the case. @ZI Jony:, I believe you have to either elaborate your decision addressing the arguments in favour of this proposal or revert your decision and create this property. Андрей Романенко (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Андрей Романенко:, I understand your frustration, but it's important to note that the decision-making process involves considering all viewpoints. While three opposing votes (which are more than 37 percent) may seem significant, it's also crucial to assess the nature of the objections and the overall consensus. I’d suggest you to discuss with @ChristianKl, عُثمان, Gymnicus:, if they are willing to change their opinions, I'll be happy to mark as ready or revert my decision. Else, we have to consider as not done. Thank you. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 11:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      It simply does not work this way. All objections must be addressed, according to the rule. The rule does not claim that all the opposing users must change their opinions; they are even not obliged to come back to the discussion after giving their opinion once. If the objection is only about the name of the property (which is the case for one of the opposing users), it is your responsibility as a property creator to consider possible renaming (and I proposed this renaming). If some users opposed to the proposal and the author of the proposal replied, it is your responsibility to weigh (the word from the WD rule) the arguments. Андрей Романенко (talk) 12:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Андрей Романенко:, I've already taken my decision. If you want to overturn my decision, then you are full free to take this matter to AN. A administrator will revert/reopen the proposal for you. Thank you! Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 13:57, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The policy asks for arguments being addressed before a property is created. It does not ask for addressing points before proposals are closed. That's by design. We frequently have stale property proposals that we close even if there are a lot of unaddressed points made in a discussion.
      When creating a new property I expect that people think about how to best name the property and I do think that both label and description matters and someone should do the effort to create good one's in English. " Picture of this person doing their job" is still questionable even if not as obvious. We don't capitalize the first word. The related properties that are listed all use the word image. There's no reasoning given why this one should deviate from that. Anyone who thinks deeply about this property should think about those issues and the fact that nobody did, means that nobody of the people who support this property engaged in the intellectual labor I expect before property creation (so I'm less sure about whether there are other issues that take me more than a minute to think up). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:02, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @ChristianKl With respect, it is not a valid reason to oppose a new property because the label used in the proposal uses inappropriate capitalisation. You are free to update the proposal with the correct capitalisation, now or at any time after creation. What we are looking for is relevant comments on the substance of the proposed property, not minutiae — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @MSGJ: As long as people vote without doing the bar minimum of thinking about what's invovled it's necessary to cast oppose votes to prevent bad properties to be created. That's the point of why we have the approval process. Preventing ill-thought out properties from being created. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the description to make it gender neutral and re-opened the discussion — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:50, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@عُثمان, @Gymnicus: if you would like to follow-up on your comments above that might be helpful — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, MSGJ. Let me once again stress the point: we expect from the main picture of a person to give the general idea of what their face looks like. But there are many professionals whose main activity shows them in completely different view. And it is quite reasonable that, for instance, for an ice hockey goalkeeper we'd be able to switch between this and this. I really don't understand wht's wrong in it and why we cannot have for people what we have for buildings. Андрей Романенко (talk) 15:13, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Comment: I'm not a native English speaker, so it might even sound wrong, but alternatively I would suggest something like person's job image or image of a person's occupation as a label for the property. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Z thomas: So what do you think of this suggestion? For comparison, take a look at a recent property I created. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 01:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma thanks for your suggestion. I'm fine with it. Everything that helps to improve the proposal is good. And your proposal hits the point well. Greetings from Germany Z thomas (talk) 06:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your reply. I would also like to hear the opinion of @ChristianKl, who previously opposed the proposal because of the current label. What are your thoughts now on the new proposed labels and which one is more appropriate? Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 03:52, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User account edit

Identifier edit

Bulletin of the American Astronomy Society Obituary ID edit

   Under discussion
Descriptionunique ID for an obituary in the Bulletin of the American Astronomy Society
RepresentsBulletin of the American Astronomical Society (Q1105325)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainhuman (Q5) (dead ones, scientists/astronomers)
Example 1Jean-Pierre Swings (Q114896935)Obituary ID from BAAS832ef80f
Example 2Peter Gierasch (Q115768005)Obituary ID from BAAS6d900b5a
Example 3Terence Dickinson (Q7701885)Obituary ID from BAASa54cc2dc
Planned useExternal link to necrology on frwiki articles.
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URLhttps://doi.org/10.3847/25c2cfeb.$1
Applicable "stated in"-valueBulletin of the American Astronomical Society (Q1105325)
Wikidata projectAstronomy

Motivation edit

The Bulletin of AAS contains dozens of obituaries of scientists/astronomers. The addition of this identifier would allow, in the future, to use them to source wikipedia articles. It gives access to the birth date, place of birth, death date, place of death of the people. --Gabon100 (talk) 15:43, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Notified participants of WikiProject Astronomy

Discussion edit

  Comment Maybe it would be better to use item datatype, for example Richard Alan Schwartz (Q113711477)Obituary from BAASRichard A. Schwartz (1952–2020) (Q113711487). However, a property creation seems necessary to be able to add the link on Wikipedia via lua wikibase api. — Metamorforme42 (talk) 15:17, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The journal has 7000 article entries on Wikidata of which 5 are obituaries. There are however 12 000 obituary articles in total. So if we have items for those anyway, using the item datatype makes sense, but only if as a general property. Currently described by source (P1343) serves this purpose. There's a constraint on the DOI number property that it can't be used on humans, that's worth keeping IMO, which means it is not an alternative here. Infrastruktur (talk) 18:07, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prisoner number edit

   Under discussion
DescriptionPrisoner number
Representsinmate number (Q40976232)
Data typeString
Example 1Maximilian Kolbe (Q153850) → 16670
Example 2Witold Pilecki (Q315691) → 4859
Example 3Władysław Bartoszewski (Q381185) → 4427
Example 4Czesława Kwoka (Q5202138) → 26947
Example 5Mala Zimetbaum (Q276062) → 19880
Example 6Otto Küsel (Q113050) → 2
Planned usePopulate this property with identifiers from various sources.
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)

Motivation edit

This property can be used to store the prisoner number from Nazi German concentration camps. It should store multiple values, as some people had more than one number, e.g. Otto Küsel (Q113050) had #979 in Sachsenhausen concentration camp (Q154498) and #2 in Auschwitz (Q7341). LimaMario (talk) 22:09, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

@LimaMario, ArthurPSmith, Emu, BrokenSegue, Germartin1, Pmt: I would be happy to create this property if you can come up with an example statement where this property is used as a qualifier to another statement. Harej (talk) 18:06, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Harej I don’t think that this proposal is ready so I removed this status. The question of BrokenSegue is still unanswered: Should it be something like
--Emu (talk) 19:17, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Emu thats correct Pmt (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Harej I do not quite understand what you fully require here. My support for this proposal as a qualifier si based upon norwegian poitical and war prisoners listed in Q96105649. Here I can find Trygve Bratteli (Q326587) having place of detention (P2632) Sachsenhausen concentration camp (Q154498) with 65663 as prisoner number, further Grini detention camp (Q637411) with prisoner numer 4533. There are many sources on NB.no, Digitalarkivet.no and Fanger.no for norwegian citizens. Pmt (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is interesting because the numbers are not unique, we have no single database, this is a global practice that ought to apply to many prisons, and because I am not aware of any community like a "WikiProject Incarcerated Persons" that curates this, despite the audience interest in the topic. While I think the numbers need to have a reference or some explanation of the source, and they ought also to say the date and place of incarceration because those can change during an incarceration term, I think we can do this. Bluerasberry (talk) 14:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Seems very helpful.StarTrekker (talk) 04:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please update the examples, to make it clear it is a qualifier to which property. Midleading (talk) 14:27, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @LimaMario:, could you please clarify the comments above, and update the examples to make it clear. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 07:13, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @LimaMario:, could you please clarify the comments above, and update the examples to make it clear, otherwise will be marked as not done! Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 06:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Support, an important property for society.--Arbnos (talk) 21:08, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Oppose I am concerned this duplicates existing properties such as US Bureau of Prisons Inmate Register Number (P8007). A prisoner number only makes sense in the scope of a particular penal system, which is why I think we should have a separate prisoner number property for each penal system, rather than a generic "prisoner number" property. Having a specific property allows us to use "formatter URL" to point to the penal system's online database, if it exists. And if we have both the generic "prisoner number" property and system-specific properties, people are going to end up using the former when they should have used the latter because they don't know the latter exists. Since the original concern was about Nazi prisoner numbers, why not a "Nazi Germany prisoner number" property for that specific case? Maybe there is some online database of them to which we can link? SomethingForDeletion (talk) 06:16, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Douban Personage ID edit

   Under discussion
DescriptionDouban.com person id
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed values[1-9]\d*
Example 1Liu Cixin (Q607588) → 27484095
Example 2Cate Blanchett (Q80966) → 27260209
Example 3Taylor Swift (Q26876) → 27207063
Sourcehttps://www.douban.com
Expected completenessalways incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URLhttps://www.douban.com/personage/$1/

Motivation edit

I found that Douban (Q5299559) has begun to redirect Douban musician ID (P6446), Douban movie celebrity ID (P5284) and Douban author ID (P6441) to this personage id, although this property has already existed for a long time on Douban.com.--Kethyga (talk) 09:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

‎Kōmako ID edit

   Under discussion
Descriptionidentifier for Māori writers
Representshuman (Q5)
Data typeExternal identifier
Domainhuman (Q5)
Allowed valuesidentifier is a string of digits from one to four digits long
Example 1Patricia Grace (Q138882)Kōmako ID236
Example 2Hinemoana Baker (Q5766977)Kōmako ID45
Example 3Colleen Maria Lenihan (Q122385329)Kōmako ID1642
Sourcehttps://www.komako.org.nz/person/
Planned useWe plan to either match the list in OpenRefine or create a Mixnmatch catalogue.
Number of IDs in source1626
Expected completenesseventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URLhttps://www.komako.org.nz/person/$1
Applicable "stated in"-valueKōmako: a Bibliography of Writing by Māori in English (Q125680701)
Single-value constraintyes
Distinct-values constraintyes

Motivation edit

The Kōmako bibliographic database contains biographies for 1626 writers of Māori descent (as of April 2024). The database has been compiled by researchers at the University of Canterbury over the past twenty five years. These biographic entries are useful sources on Wikipedia and in Wikidata to support ethnicity statements. It is likely that Māori writers are under-represented on Wikidata and having this identifier would allow us to compare our coverage with this authoritative database and fill in gaps. We have a complete list of biographies in Kōmako and matching identifiers already, and would either match ids using OpenRefine or a Mixnmatch catalogue depending on how many people in the NZ Wikidata community want to contribute. DrThneed (talk) 22:41, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

Yep! DrThneed (talk)
  • It's customary for the names of external ID that share one datatype to refer to this datatype. Why doesn't this property follow convention and is not named "Kōmako person ID" or "Kōmako writer ID". The property description currently only says that this is about Māori writers but does not contain the information in the motivation about the name of the database and who made it. I don't see a good reason to leave that information out. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 16:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for your comments @ChristianKl. "It's customary" - is it? I'm not arguing it isn't helpful but I see plenty of widely used identifiers that don't say they are person IDs in the name of the property, e.g. ORCID iD (P496), VIAF ID (P214), NUKAT ID (P1207). Still, I have no objection to changing it, but perhaps to "Kōmako author ID", as they are all authors (I'll wait and see if there are other comments about the name before changing it though).
    You can find information about the name of the database and creators of the database in the corresponding Wikidata item Kōmako: a Bibliography of Writing by Māori in English (Q125680701) which is linked in the property proposal. I've just added two "described at URL" statements to that item which links to FAQs including the criteria for inclusion, and the history of the database (direct link here, and here, for your convenience). DrThneed (talk) 22:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When it comes to ORCID iD, the website calls the number that way, so it's defensible to follow the official naming instead our standard convention. VIAF is about both people and organisations. NUKAT is also about works, events and group of people. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 23:31, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Support. Keen to see this identifier added to Wikidata as I agree with the other support statements stated above. Ambrosia10 (talk) 19:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Full name edit

Profession edit

Work edit

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