User:Llywelyn2000/Property proposal draft
gained independence from edit
Under discussion
| Description | country or countries from which this nation-state gained its independence |
|---|---|
| Represents | nation state (Q179671) |
| Data type | Item |
| Template parameter | "Annibyniaeth" ("Independence") in cy:template:gwybodlen lle (infobox settlement; see label61) |
| Domain | historical country (Q3024240) |
| Allowed values | country (Q6256) sovereign state (Q3624078) |
| Example 1 | Mexico (Q96) → Spain (Q29) (qualifier / point in time: December 28, 1836) |
| Example 2 | Mozambique (Q1029) → Portugal (Q45) (qualifier / point in time: 25 June 1975) |
| Example 3 | Australia (Q408) → United Kingdom (Q145) (qualifier / point in time: 1 January 1901) |
| Example 4 | Suriname (Q730) → Kingdom of the Netherlands (Q29999) (qualifier / point in time: 25 November 1975) |
| Source | English and other language Wikipedia |
| Planned use | add to as many relevant countries as possible; the information will populate the new Wikidata Infoboxes on Wikipedia (see above) |
| Expected completeness | eventually complete (Q21873974) |
| See also | Wikidata:Property proposal/nation-state tradition |
Motivation I propose this property as the information is key info on all country infoboxes in many languages. It is therefore essential in forming Wikidata infoboxes such as this one. I propose that it has a qualifier: date / point in time of one of the following: decleration of independence, consummated or recognised.
- Comment For some countries this is very messy. A good example is Australia. When exactly did Australia become independent of the UK? With Federation in 1901? With the adoption of the Statute of Westminster in 1942 (which was backdated to 1939)? With the Australia Act in 1986? Actually, there is no universally agreed answer to this question, because unlike many other countries, Australia's independence from the UK was a gradual and staged process, not something sudden and abrupt at one single specific point in time, and reasonable people can disagree about which stage in the process constituted "independence" proper. I'd be interested to know how this proposed property can model this complex issue. SJK (talk) 00:35, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- Also, why is this defined in terms of nation state (Q179671) instead of sovereign state (Q3624078)? For state A to become independent of state B, there is no requirement that they be nation-states. In the pre-modern era, it was not uncommon for one state to become independent of another, but often neither state was a "nation state" in the modern sense. For example, Andorra became independent of Aragon in 1278, but it is very historically anachronistic to consider either Andorra or Aragon in 1278 to be "nation-states", since the very concept of "nation-state" didn't develop until two or more centuries later (most commonly said to be some time between the 15th and the 19th). In the Middle Ages, statehood was primarily conceptualised in terms of the person of the ruler, and their personal relations (membership of a dynasty, feudal allegiance); the emphasis on a common language/culture/ancestry of the subjects as the foundation of the state's existence, which is what "nation-state" means, was a later historical development. SJK (talk) 00:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- Re Australia: the answer to this is on enwiki infobox, to quote:
- Independence from the United Kingdom
- Federation Constitution = 1 January 1901
- Statute of Westminster Adoption Act = 9 October 1942 (with effect from 3 September 1939)
- Australia Act = 3 March 1986
- Wikidata can gather this information, so that it's displayed in such a manner. it's not that difficult, where there's a will.
- Re: nation state (Q179671) instead of sovereign state (Q3624078) - not a crucial matter in this case, so what's the solution, in order to display the correct data, as quoted above from enwiki? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:44, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
- I think to properly handle the Australia case, you need to identify qualifiers to use on each of the three values. I guess legislated by (P467) can be used to link the date to the relevant legislation. The other problem is how to deal with the two dates for the Statute of Westminster Adoption Act (its own date, and the date of its retroactive effect.) We don't seem to have a property to express the date from which retroactive legislation applies. I guess someone could propose one. SJK (talk) 21:35, 2 June 2019 (UTC)