User talk:Michael-Moates/Archive/2021

Block

You have been blocked indefinitely for Abusing multiple accounts, see here. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest it by editing this page and adding the following template with a suitable reason: {{unblock|1=<the reason for your unblock request>}}. If you are logged in, and the option has not been disabled, you may also email the blocking administrator (or any administrator from this list) by using this form. See Wikidata:Guide to appealing blocks for more information.

---

⁠

Unblock request granted This blocked user asked to be unblocked, and one or more administrators has reviewed and granted this request. Michael-Moates/Archive block log • ipblocklist • crossblock • luxo's • unblock • remove gblock • contribs: +/-

---

Request reason:

I admitted to having other accounts including the Dark Humor account. Unfortunately I forgot my password and since my email was not attached I cannot reset my password. This account was not set up to evade any block I simply can't login to the old account.

Unblock reason:

see discussion below

This template should be archived normally.

---

беларуская (тарашкевіца) | български | čeština | English | español | français | македонски | português | português do Brasil | русский | svenska | 中文 | +/−

P.S. You have stated here that you did not remember names of earlier accounts, while one of those accounts was the one starting the thread you were posting it in. Use of multiple accounts this way is forbidden. Lymantria (talk) 16:40, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Lymantria I did not remember the Dark Humor account name until you told me via the check user... I also did not remember using that account to start the post. I plan to only use this account going forward. I have added my email and written down my username and password. I feel as though I was transparent in stating I had the accounts just didn't remember the names. DoctorTexan (talk) 16:48, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't buy it. In addition, earlier accounts like User:Mmoares (you didn't remember that name?) were globally blocked. I wish the closing administrator lots of wisdom. Lymantria (talk) 17:01, 4 May 2021 (UTC) (CE 21:03, 4 May 2021 (UTC))

Lymantria You are supposed to assume good faith. My edits on this account have been nothing but constructive. I have not spam or done anything in violation of the rules. I apologize I’m not as obsessed with my user names as I should’ve been. I believe that when people come here they should have accurate information. As you can see, I don’t come on here often but when I do my edits on wiki data have been constructive. PS if I was trying to hide it why would I admit to having other accounts. DoctorTexan (talk) 17:05, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Closing admin I would like to point out that I was blocked for making constructive edits while Lymantria allowed the IP who posted my private phone number, email address, and medical conditions to run free without even a temp block. Furthermore, the wiki data legal team had to intervene and remove this information because the admin failed to do so.DoctorTexan (talk) 17:17, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Excuse me?? I have removed the personal data! Lymantria (talk) 17:29, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

My apologies I was under the impression that the legal team did it because no one responded to my request. That being said, you still allowed the user to roam free after posting private information that is protected by law. You allowed that user not receive any kind of block, Lymantria. That IP address remains free to do what ever unconstructive edits they want. You blocked me for defending myself rather than blocking the person who posted the private information. DoctorTexan (talk) 17:33, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I blocked you for abusing multiple accounts, not for defending yourself. The IP you should not discuss here. Under block you may only user your user page for promoting your undeletion. But let me say, that I judged protection the best way to avoid more harm, and blocking is not meant for "punishment". Lymantria (talk) 17:42, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

if the account was created with the purpose of getting the emergency removal of the personal information that makes it relevant to the discussion here. I created the account to write a message on the administrative board and for some reason was logged out almost immediately after creating the account. I use Apple‘s password generator and it didn’t save my password so I was required to create a new account because my email was not on the old one. There was no way for me to reset the password. As stated, that individual posted medical information, phone information, and email addresses. I submitted a document to the court today requesting that the information be sealed and that wiki data be issued an order that requires them to redact that information going forward. I am concerned that you don’t see a problem with that user continuing on the platform. I didn’t create the account to cause problems I created the account to try to resolve my concerns. It’s unfortunate that the password was not saved in the password generator because I don’t Use the same passwords for the sole purpose of potentially being hacked. This was all in good faith to try and get the information removed. I even disclose that I had other accounts. DoctorTexan (talk) 17:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi! I'm sorry to see that you're having a difficult time here. At this point it might take us a little bit of discussion to sort things out, so please bear with us. It would be helpful if you could answer a few questions:

As I understand things, you are the subject of Q63245258 and you want to ensure that the item does not contain information you believe to be either private or inaccurate. This is a valid concern for you to have, but I will note that we do not encourage subjects to edit their own items (presenting as it does a clear conflict of interest) and we do not allow subjects to control their item (although we are sensitive to concerns about privacy and verifiability). We also strongly discourage edit warring, no matter how well-intentioned the edits you are trying to make. Am I right in thinking that the current version of the (semi-protected) article adequately addresses your concerns?

In editing Wikidata, you have created a succession of different accounts (including Mmoates, Datamaster1, Darkhumor224, and now DoctorTexan). Your explanation for this is that each time you lost the password and had failed to provide a recovery email. You acknowledged having had previous accounts, but were unable to provide clear details. At some point, your accounts started getting blocked for "abusing multiple accounts", but you claim that block evasion and avoidance of scrutiny were not factors in the subsequent creation of new accounts, merely careless account management. Is that a fair summary of your position?

I notice that you have made references above to applying for a court order against Wikidata. I strongly recommend that you do not say anything here that could be construed as a threat of legal action against Wikidata or any editor, especially in the context of an unblock request. I can assure you that it will not make anyone more likely to unblock you. It is a common policy to allow litigants to remain blocked until any legal issues are resolved. See also meta:No legal threats.

If you were to be unblocked, how do you plan to contribute to this project in the future? In particular, is your interest confined to editing items for which you have a conflict of interest?

Some questions for @Lymantria: So far as I can see, the various accounts are all blocked for abuse of multiple accounts, primarily for failure to declare the details of alternative accounts. Are there any behavioural issues outside abuse of multiple accounts for which this user should also be blocked? Is there any evidence that the accounts were used concurrently rather than consecutively? You mention a global lock above, which seems important, but I couldn't find that in the logs. Bovlb (talk) 18:43, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Bovlb - First, let me say thank you for taking the time to consider my case. In reference to the court order... that was not meant to be directed at Wikidata and I should have worded it better. I was referencing having that information removed from the docket which would mean there is no reference for Wikidata to have a url to support such claims. If unblocked, I will contribute as I have with this as my only account. I simply want to add information in the world and do so with respected sources. No, I do not plan to only edit my property. As you can see, I have added and edited other properties on this account and in the past. I want to help contribute. I am a Doctor of Education student... I just want to further knowledge. I have declared who I am and I want to be productive. While I have had accounts in the past I am at a much different place in my life. The issue with regards to the account dark humor was truly an accident. I have no way to recover the account. I was quickly trying to get that information removed so it would not be scrapped by Google. In the process, I lost my password. I declared these accounts as I was trying to be transparent. I feel I have been constructive and I am trying to respect the rules. I would also like to point out that rather than creating new accounts as I have in the past I am here trying to work this out with the Admin team. I believe that shows growth and my desire to respect the rules. I admit I had poor account management in the past but it was simply that. Not a ban evasion on purpose. Also this is supported by if you look a the history for the mmoates account there is only one edit on a talk page and if you look at the dark humor it was one day and you can see where I lost access. These accounts were in succession not concurrently run. Finally, I am not aware of a global block... that doesn't mean it didn't happen but it is not something I have been made aware of. DoctorTexan (talk) 18:56, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bovlb: FYI, there has been a history with this user, which is best documented at enwiki, where for instance vote stacking was mentioned. At Wikidata those accounts seem to have been active in succession, without interfering. You are right, no global lock. I mixed the global lock with another case I was working on today. My apologies for that. Apart from the history of earlier accounts, I don't buy the accident with Darkhumor224. DoctorTexan walks into the discussion at WD:AN as if he is a new contributor to it and states "For the record, I am Michael Moates the subject of this property. I do not have access to any previous accounts but I do declare I have had previous accounts... just can't remember the usernames". Nothing about passwords, its usernames he's forgotten. And more precisely, he does not mention to be the same as the user starting the discussion, while he admits being the IP(s?). He now says he admits to have had earlier accounts as if that were Darkhumor224, but that seems stretching of his words in retrospect. It smells like manipulating a discussion. So yes, IMHO, there are behavorial issues. Strict and documented promises are at least needed for a possible unblock of one of the accounts. Lymantria (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bovlb: With respect, I could have communicated better but let me say this I did not have the usernames or passwords. Keep in mind that Apples Keychain program stores them both. So I did not have either. Yes, I did not say I started the conversation... I thought that was a given. But to be clear, I also think it is unfair that while I may have not been great at communicating that the blocking admin can blatantly give false information about me saying I was globally banned when I was not. I have admitted I had multiple accounts. I have made mistakes in the past. I am trying to move forward and it seems @Lymantria: doesn't want me to move forward. She assumes that I am acting with bad intentions when the idea is to Wikidata:Assume good faith. The "I don't buy it" comment is unnecessary, I am here to be productive. In reference to the Wikipedia account @Lymantria: references, that account is from three years ago. I would hope the admin community would allow someone a way to recover from the past. I have stated many times I want to contribute here in a productive way. I have edited my own property but also I have added others and edited other with supported information. I am here to help, not to cause issues. I admit I was quick with account creation because as you can imagine I don't want people having my phone number, addresses, or medical info. The goal was to get that taken care of. But beyond that all I have done recently has been productive. DoctorTexan (talk) 19:53, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

DoctorTexan used two additional accounts after the most recent block. See Autoblock #28294 (17:55 UTC) and Autoblock ##28283 (16:39 UTC). 185.181.61.39 20:17, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Lol, clearly this IP has no idea what they are talking about. These were automatic block on my IP from the original block. I have used no subsequent account. I assume this is the same individual who did the unconstructive edits to the property yesterday. Clearly they have an agenda with no previous contributions to Wikidata. It is my assumption the two IP's that were auto blocked were my Mac and my cellphone given I was logged in on both. DoctorTexan (talk) 20:22, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Lymantria: - You opened the door to unblock in your statement about "Strict and documented promises are at least needed for a possible unblock of one of the accounts" if you will tell me what promises you are looking for I will be happy to reply to them. I have already stated I 1) Will not create any new accounts. 2) Engage in productive editing. Please let me know what further you are looking for from me and I will be happy to take a look. DoctorTexan (talk) 20:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I leave it to Bovlb. Lymantria (talk) 20:43, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bovlb: - This is where I get lost... I don't know what more is wanted from me when there is no specifics. I feel as though I have addressed everything that has been presented to me. DoctorTexan (talk) 20:51, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks @Lymantria and DoctorTexan for your responses. I am concerned about the history on ENWP, which seems more severe than the problems here. We don't make decisions here purely on the basis of activity on other projects, but we do take it into account when interpreting local activity. However, as DoctorTexan says, that is some time in the past, and we ought to give people an opportunity to grow and learn.

I appreciate Lymantria's point about the comments on Wikidata:Administrators'_noticeboard#Continued_Vandalism and how, while they admit to previous accounts, the comment seems unnecessarily vague in the context of that thread. I am aware that people lose passwords and don't always deal with that in a way which is ideal. DoctorTexan's actions here admit of either nefarious or benign interpretation, and none of us are mind-readers.

At this point, I'm inclined to unblock DoctorTexan (per en:WP:ROPE), subject to the assurances given about using only one account (which includes being sure not to edit while logged out) and editing constructively. The latter means absolutely no edit warring; call for assistance if you find yourself in that situation (see also en:WP:DRY). This applies doubly for items where you have a clear conflict of interest, such as those about yourself, your family, or your employer. As a rule of thumb, try limiting yourself to one revert before calling for help. Please be aware that you will be under scrutiny, and an unblock now does not immunize you from subsequent action. Bovlb (talk) 17:09, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@Bovlb: - Thank you, I promise I will follow the rules. On another note, would it be appropriate for me to remove this conversation and the sock notification since they will remain on the page history? DoctorTexan (talk) 19:07, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

THere's no rule against it, but if you want to guard against the accusation of evading scrutiny, you may want to consider setting up a proper talk page archive. Two common approaches are either to add {{Autoarchive resolved section}} or switch to Structured Discussions. Bovlb (talk) 19:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your effort, Bovlb. Lymantria (talk) 05:54, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome. One more note: I believe the autoarchiver only archives text under section headers. I took the liberty of adding one here. Bovlb (talk) 18:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DoctorTexan (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

New user mistakes

Hi! I wonder if you could do me a small favour. I have written an essay (User:Bovlb/Don't underestimate ignorance) about common new user mistakes and why it is important not to treat them as vandalism. It's inspired by my experience in dealing with new users and unblock requests. It's a little rough, but I would be interested in your feedback. Bovlb (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Bovlb - Great article. This is everything I have been trying to say to the Wikipedia Admins... it all about good faith judgements... there should be a Wiki-projects for Dummies article. It is so complex between all the projects and it is often hard for an editor to learn policy... many assume they can just come edit... the first policy I learned was COI, I had no idea.... thank you for this article, I will be sharing it!!! Doctor of Patriot Relations 🇺🇸 (talk) 02:25, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Doctor of Patriot Relations 🇺🇸 (talk) 09:20, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Global lock

Hi. I see that your account has now been globally locked. This means that you have effectively been blocked on all WMF projects, and this cannot be overridden on a per-project basis (so it is out of my hands). This appears to be the result of a slow-moving process on English Wikipedia that has now come to fruition. I have requested a review of that decision for this account only on the basis of our recent negotiation. Cheers, Bovlb (talk) 22:06, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

You should be unlocked now. Bovlb (talk) 21:34, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Bovlb - thank you for being my advocate. I promise I won’t let you down. I’m on my way to dinner but when I get home this evening I will take a look at your essay :) Doctor of Patriot Relations (talk) 22:14, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Doctor of Patriot Relations 🇺🇸 (talk) 04:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)