Wikidata:Property proposal/publisher of

publisher of edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

Not done

Description	partial inverse of publisher (P123)
Data type	Property
Template parameter	Example: "Utgivare av" in sv:Mall:Databox; "Publisher of" wherever applicable.
Allowed values	publication (Q732577), intellectual work (Q15621286)
Example 1	Tidskriften Essä (Q98634510)→Essä (Q98609794)
Example 2	Översättarcentrum (Q18335400)→Med andra ord (Q10579009)
Example 3	Bonnier Magazines & Brands (Q10432924)→Kamratposten (Q3377873)
Planned use	Immediately, for examples 1–3, with more to come.

Motivation edit

Three reasons, illustrated by each of the examples:

My reason for proposing this property is to clarify the distinction and relationship between Essä and Tidskriften Essä, a Swedish magazine and the organisation solely devoted to publishing said magazine, respectively. This is because the name of the organisation literally translates as "The Magazine Essä". It is likely that articles about this publication will be written on the other Scandinavian Wikipedias, so I wish to make it crystal clear what's what. (We already had some confusion over on Swedish Wikipedia.)
However, this property will be useful for any organisation that publishes anything, but especially in cases where an organisation is (primarily) associated with a specific publication; example 2 is one such case.
Example 3 is an publisher that is not primarily associated with the publication to the right; in this case, however, the publication is one of the oldest and most well-known magazines of said publisher, which makes it relevant to highlight the publication in the publisher's infobox.

I hope it is clear why I propose this property, even though I am only able to provide examples from within Sweden. Förbätterlig (talk) 12:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on your examples: are these two items the same: Essä (Q79012737) and Essä (Q98609794) ? --Hannes Röst (talk) 17:36, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion edit

@Förbätterlig: Why can't you use the inverse property, publisher (P123) ? ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because it only adds the name of the publisher to the publication item. Here I propose to make it possible to add the name of the publication to the publisher item. Förbätterlig (talk) 18:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is the intent to add EVERY publication (a true inverse) - which I think makes no sense - or just a small sample of publications (partial inverse)? Some publishers have thousands, even tens of thousands of publications. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, ArthurPSmith. No, not a true inverse, but a partial one (if that means that this inverse is possible to add in cases where it does make sense, but not mandatory). My proposal was incorrectly worded. Förbätterlig (talk) 13:35, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose publisher (P123) works well for the usecase. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 12:42, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ChristianKl, does it? Two people have now referred to publisher (P123), but I don't see how that can be used in the way I've described. Anyone care to explain? Förbätterlig (talk) 15:38, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Have you consider using different from (P1889) instead? I see this frequently used to clarify differences between similarly or identically named entities. That happens a lot in chemistry too. --Egon Willighagen (talk) 16:08, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, but that only covers one of the uses. Also, why use roundabout solutions when it's possible to be precise? I'm still eager to find out how publisher (P123) could do the job, since I have been told twice that it can, but not how. If it turns out that it can't (which currently seems to be the case), are there any other reasons to oppose my suggestion? Why shouldn't we be able to specify this type of information in this way? Förbätterlig (talk) 19:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Question Just curious: Bonnier Magazines & Brands (Q10432924) (or Bonnier AB) seems to publish many things. Why was Kamratposten (Q3377873) chosen? Where would all the others go? --- Jura 12:01, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jura, I did explain this in the motivation. Perhaps it would be added along with one or two of the other most notable and/or oldest publications (but I see know that it recently changed to a different publisher, so that example is incorrect, my bad). Förbätterlig (talk) 18:41, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that, somehow I overlooked that. I think significant event (P793) (e.g. first publication) could work for that. --- Jura 18:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this is simply adding duplicate information, publisher (P123) is more than sufficient to model the publisher-publication relation. Since @Förbätterlig: seems to ask how to use publisher (P123), it is already available as Essä (Q98609794)publisher (P123)Tidskriften Essä (Q98634510) (Essä -> publisher -> Tidskriften Essä) which also automatically leads to the inverse relation "Tidskriften Essä -> publisher of -> Essä" using the inverse label relation. --Hannes Röst (talk) 17:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, but is this automatic inverse information shown somewhere? Förbätterlig (talk) 18:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have noted a corresponding thing with founded by (P112) and founder of (Q65972149). But, for the forth time, how does this fulfil the same purpose as a property would? Where in the item for the publisher, founder, etc is the information found? How many more weeks am I going to have to wait for an answer? Förbätterlig (talk) 15:19, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Förbätterlig: Not sure this is what you are looking for, but if you add

  importScript( 'User:Pasleim/derivedstatements.js' );

to your User:xxx/common.js file it will show all the inverse relationships at the bottom of an item. We probably should have a Help page about inverse relations somewhere... The "What Links Here" link on every page also shows all those relations (but without telling you what property is involved). And of course you can fetch them in more detail with a SPARQL query on the query service. ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Consensus againts the creation. publisher (P123) Could be used in the item of the publication. --Fralambert (talk) 22:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]