Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/UrbanecmBot 2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Approved --Lymantria (talk) 08:09, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UrbanecmBot 2 edit

UrbanecmBot (talk • contribs • new items • new lexemes • SUL • Block log • User rights log • User rights • xtools)
Operator: Martin Urbanec (talk • contribs • logs)

Task/s: Add Czech label to items with sitelink for Czech Wikipedia (cswiki)

Code: available at GitHub

Function details: The bot will add labels to articles in cswiki's maintenance category. The label will be guessed from current article title (after performing some normalizations). The bot will ignore the article if Wikidata already has any Czech label (despite what the category claims). The bot will also not add any description, but I will think about a way how to do so, and will a new request for approval later. --Martin Urbanec (talk) 20:30, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Made 50 edits as a trial. --Martin Urbanec (talk) 20:37, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me, I can approve the bot in a couple of days provided no objections have been raised.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The edit summary isn't helpful ("Changed label, description and/or aliases in cs: TRIAL: Add Czech label)". Can you use standard ones with the label added in the summary? --- Jura 21:00, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- BTW please bear in mind that you are doing edits on the live database. If you want to do tests, please use test.wikidata.org --- Jura 21:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  I know about testwikidata. Per WD:Bot, I'm supposed to do between 50 and 250 trial edits, so the community can see the bot works properly. The word "TRIAL" in edit summary is there merely to indicate those edits are part of the trial run, per the bot policy. Martin Urbanec (talk) 15:11, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Where does the policy require adding "TRIAL" in the edit summary. Can you add the label instead? --- Jura 16:30, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The policy requires making trial edits. Since the bot is already approved for a different task, I wanted to make it clear which edits are trial for yet-to-be-approved task, as a courtesy to the community, so people can easily distinguish "real" edits, and those made as a trial. Martin Urbanec (talk) 22:23, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Experienced operators generally provide a permanent link to the trial edits, e.g. like this.
    If you add test elements to the trial edits, we wont know later on if it's defective because it didn't work in the trial <or> if it's defective and we already missed it in the trial edits.
    Further, as you seem to think it's ok to do unapproved tasks that you couldn't test, it could also be defective because you didn't test it and it's not an approved task.
    As courtesy to the community, please redo a trial run with production quality edits (including edit summaries) and assure us that, going forward, you wont run any un-approved tasks with the bot account. I think the community would rather avoid having to speculate and see you do as per the tasks you propose. --- Jura 09:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this only going to make 150 edits (that's how many pages are in https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:%C3%9Adr%C5%BEba:%C4%8Cl%C3%A1nky_bez_%C5%A1t%C3%ADtku_na_Wikidatech)? If so I wouldn't even say you need approval. BrokenSegue (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is going to make 150 edits for the first run, and then check the category regularly, clearing whatever is there. This kind of a problem won't disappear, rather, users will forget to add a Wikidata label from time to time. Martin Urbanec (talk) 15:12, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's the story about the unapproved tasks done by the bot account? It seems the bot account is only approved to add coordinates, but many of its edits are others. --- Jura 05:42, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q27611&diff=prev&oldid=1300333709 and company (interwiki adding link)?
As you may know already, I coordinate the process of creating new Wikimedia wikis (see tasks in Phabricator for details). Once a wiki is created and content is imported from Incubator, I run interwikidata.py from Pywikibot to import sitelinks to Wikidata (as in Incubator, one has to use the old style of interwiki, ie. [[cs:Praha]]). I originally didn't think it would require approval, since it's only a handful of edits per each wiki (mostly less than the 50 minimum for test edits). If you (or @Ymblanter as a Wikidata bureaucrat) think it'd be better to have an approval on file, I'm happy to file a request. Martin Urbanec (talk) 15:28, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To me, this sounds like an interwiki bot task, we do not need to approve these.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:37, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The policy has no exception for this. I think it should be properly requested and tested when possible. --- Jura 16:30, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
For now, I'm going to stick to bureaucrat's interpretation of the policy. As I said, it can't really be tested, given the task is only needed when a new wiki is created, which doesn't happen often. Martin Urbanec (talk) 16:48, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think this bot should be blocked given the failed test edits and the statement by its operator that it wont limit itself to approved tasks and thus can't be trusted for such access. --- Jura 19:31, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see how the test edits are failed. As far as I am concerned the bot is doing exactly what is described in the task.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:35, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If the task it to provide an edit summary with the words "TRIAL", then it should be rejected as we don't need such a task. --- Jura 20:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Lymantria, Vogone: I do not find the objections significant enough to not approve the request, but it will certainly benefit from one or two additional pairs of eyes. Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:26, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I share your observation. I am sure Martin Urbanec is competent enough not to include the word 'TRIAL' in actual live edits after this task has been approved. However, also interwiki tasks should normally be approved. If there is an intention to run these on an automated basis, it is definitely safer to seek approval, exactly to avoid concerns like the ones raised by Jura above. --Vogone (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a quick comment on the interwiki edits. The interwiki edits are not done automatically -- it's not really a bot task I would just put to en:cron (like the coordinate import task). Instead, I manually run the script every time it is needed (ie. after a wiki is created), and I do supervise the script while it runs. I personally don't think such activity requires approval, as at Wikidata (unlike other projects), semi-automated edits are done by almost every regular editor. I can run the script from my own account, if you think that would be better. Best, --Martin Urbanec (talk) 00:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree with you, Ymblanter and Vogone, but I do understand the comments about interwiki. We might consider to look into the bot policy and see if some of it can be rewritten after a RfC, as I think some of it might be outdated slightly. Lymantria (talk) 08:08, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

New section edit

The problem isn't limited to the inclusion of "TRIAL" in the edit summary, it's also missing the actual Czech label .. --- Jura 08:27, 22 December 2020 (UTC) @Lymantria: --- Jura 10:19, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jura1: As you can read above, the three of us consider this not significant enough to not approve the request. Lymantria (talk) 15:30, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't see that point explicitly addressed. Is it expected that the operator fixes it or not? The role of a bureaucrat is just too add the flag based on the community discussion. I don't think there is sufficient community input to determine that we should skip standard edit summaries by this bot. --- Jura 15:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]