Wikidata talk:WikiProject Data Quality/Issues/P642/Property labels

Translation issues

I think Google's translation of the Japanese label 以下についての actually makes the case for the of (P642) deprecation effort:

about

Even the Chinese label 属于 makes for a better fit (assuming that Google's translation is acceptable in general):

belong

Looking also at existing properties which we may be increasingly reliant on, I wonder why the German label for position held (P39), "öffentliches Amt oder Stellung", is such an awkward composition. It's as if "position" itself may be an ambiguous word.

How or where will we most easily get in touch with editors of the different language communities? Some Wikidata:WikiProject team, or admins for the corresponding Wikipedia projects? When I began working on English Wikipedia, I received a welcome message including a tip about the en:Template:help me feature. However, this is Wikidata, not Wikipedia, and I don't see that feature here. Also, the helper community may be more geared towards beginner's questions. It might otherwise have been neat to use some similar tool, say, to post a call for Template:Wanted|Language consultant|language=zh... SM5POR (talk) 11:24, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I misread the Russian label earlier, looking at the wrong table row (I have deleted that part now)... It's not that bad, относится к meaning simply:

refers to

Still a bit limited, considering that "of" has about a dozen different senses in English, if mot more. --SM5POR (talk) 18:53, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

It is not possible to translate this property into a perfect fit in Japanese. This is because the grammar is completely different and cannot be made into a natural sentence.--Afaz (talk) 08:47, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, many properties with "of" in English label, 75% likely meet such problems. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:24, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

See also Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P9745 for the likely issues. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:47, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Seeking language advice on future qualifier proposals

Considering the apparent ambiguity in the German öffentliches Amt oder Stellung^(P39) property label, I think it would be a good idea to solicit early feedback on future qualifiers (or properties in general) under consideration to replace of (P642) in specific contexts, in order to reduce the risk of generating more "combined" labels of that kind in languages other than English. --SM5POR (talk) 23:29, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

In service of

This label is meant to indicate the relation a person has to an entity as a representative or official serving that entity. It was initially intended to solve the problem of an ambassador (Q121998) of a country (Q6256) being assigned to another country (Q6256), where the qualifier of (P642) effectively has been used to indicate both relations (although on different items).

However, I expect in service of to replace of (P642) also for other roles such as president of a country, board member of an organization, CEO of a corporate enterprise, or bishop of a diocese; in essence it would be the qualifier to use with position held (P39) as the main statement property, thus typically a role you are personally appointed to for a limited time due to an election, a corporate recruitment, an unexpected vacancy or similar.

It's not meant to replace employer (P108); it might just as well apply to an unpaid role as a paid one, or to a role where the entity being served is not identical to the one paying the salary, say a personal secretary or assistant in service of a member of a royal family who is not the head of state.

Consider how you would translate this relational label into your native language, or any language you are familiar with (not necessarily one of the major languages listed in the associated table). Is there a risk of ambiguity, that you would like to use different labels for different roles listed above? Can you describe the distinction, or mention other languages likely to note the same distinction? --SM5POR (talk) 23:29, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Consider for comparison the existing property represents (P1268) which can be used either as a main statement or as a qualifier, and which may be regarded as an in service of "light" in that the role is more symbolic than an actual task to be performed. An example could be Céline Dion (Q5105)participant in (P1344)Eurovision Song Contest 1988 (Q211478)represents (P1268)Switzerland (Q39) (a multi-entity relationship otherwise expressed as winner (P1346) of Eurovision Song Contest 1988 (Q211478) and partly as participant in (P1344) of Céline Dion (Q5105)). Hypothetically stating that Céline Dion (Q5105) participated in service of Switzerland (Q39) would be giving too much weight to that representation, especially as the government of Switzerland (Q39) had no role in selecting her for the competition. This comparison may be a way to draw the line around in service of and explain what it would not include, though represents (P1268) could certainly be listed as a related property, as there may be border-line overlaps between the two. Or do you disagree? --SM5POR (talk) 13:53, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Assigned to

This is the "mission" counterpart role of the case of ambassador referred to above, the entity to which you are dispatched or sent in order to perform the task given to you. Besides diplomatic roles of representing your government in relations with another country, the European Union or the United Nations, it may identify a conference where you act as a delegate on behalf of the entity you serve, or a legislative assembly where you represent your constituency. Within that assembly you may be further assigned to various committees or delegations.

In a business context you may be assigned as a sales representative, service engineer or consultant to a particular customer on a long-term basis. Likewise, a judge of a court may be assigned to a particular legal case, or an employee of a law firm to a particular party or client in such a case.

This qualifier may be used with position held (P39) in conjunction with in service of, but it could also be used with other main statement properties such as occupation (P106) or affiliation (P1416). In contrast to in service of, the subject item does not have to be an individual human, but it could also be a formal delegation of multiple people (such as the European Parliament's delegation for relations with South Korea etc).

Same question here; does this label translate well into your language, or would you prefer different labels in different contexts? --SM5POR (talk) 23:29, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

There is a related property diplomatic mission sent (P531) which however is limited to diplomatic missions only, while assigned to is meant to cover all sorts of representation with other entities, governmental or private enterprise, plus also task assignment. Another difference is that the value of diplomatic mission sent (P531) is typically the mission itself, not the destination / host country. For this reason, both may be simultaneously useful as qualifiers to the same statement, especially when the diplomat assigned to one country has an official work address in another, as is often the case with small island states lacking the infrastructure to support a large contingent of foreign embassies on their own territory. --SM5POR (talk) 21:52, 17 February 2023 (UTC)