Wikidata talk:Wikiproject Lieder

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P31 for CycleEdit

Hi, @Robertgarrigos, Moebeus:.

Are cycles always interpreted as a single piece? That is, similar to an opera with arias ?. In other words, is the cycle a piece of music with parts? or is it a serie/cycle of several lieder?

The reason for my question is that I am preparing a set of changes to improve the music items, and avoid the ambiguity of certain concepts that causes misuse or overlap. I need to understand this aspect of lieder.

Strictly speaking, a set of pieces with some common feature or grouping criterion is cycle (Q245596) or musical series (Q24992028), but it is not a composition.

Thanks, --Amadalvarez (talk) 13:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Currently we model song cycles as p31 = "musical work/composition" with form = song cycle, etc. We use "has part" to list individual songs/parts. This is in line with how these are treated by MusicBrainz, IMSLP, Allmusic. For a report of the different forms used with "musical work/composition", see:
Moebeus (talk) 13:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Great !. Thanks. Amadalvarez (talk) 05:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Thanks @Moebeus. I agree. Robertgarrigos (talk) 16:15, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

where to put the lyricsEdit

@Amadalvarez, Moebeus:

I now have a doubt on which property use to put the lyrics on: either based on (P144), which allows us to use derivative work (P4969) on the poem item, or has lyrics (P6439), which doesn't require a derivative. I like P144 because of the derivative requirement and thus would make it easy to search for, but I'm not an expert on searching. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks. --Robertgarrigos (talk) 16:14, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Inverse properties are what we're trying to move away from, so I would maintain has lyrics (P6439) is the more future proof way. Using a gadget like "relateditems" will make the relationship clear enough imo, while removing the need to maintain data "on both sides". Moebeus (talk) 17:30, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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