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User talk:Moebeus

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MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Hey Moebeus, are you sure that William Joseph (Q61744235) is a compound given name, rather than just two given names? I cannot find any evidence for the existence of such a "compound given name", and the references you provided are not helpful either.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Maybe I've misunderstood the concept of compound given name? If that's the case I've made a ton of them, English wikipedia says "A double name is a personal name with two given names" and I went with that. How would you define it?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Well I am not an expert in this field, but as far as I “know” from Wikidata experience, we have to distinguish between “compound given names”, which are always and inseparably to be used together, and “multiple given names” of which one typically is the first name the person is actively using while the others are often not well known. Compound given names are typically those with a hyphen between the parts, but there are also some rather rare cases without a hyphen; most of them are of Spanish origin. In most cases without a hyphen, however, we just talk about multiple given names which should be saved as separate given name (P735) statements in a person item, with series ordinal (P1545) qualifiers to indicate order.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Well, that certainly makes sense. Maybe an idea would be to create a new item "double given name" and move the English wiki-article (with the much looser definition) over there and then migrate all/most of the double name items without a hyphen - would that work for you?

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

We do not have items for multiple (or double) given names that are not compound given names. Thus I do not think that we need an item for these cases. Have a look at Q831655 how it is done in such cases: three given name (P735) statements, with series ordinal (P1545) qualifiers to indicate order, and preferred rank for the first name (the one the person is known under, which does not necessarily need to be the one with "series ordinal: 1").

The English article has poor quality to my opinion, while the German sitelink is much more precise. Not sure what to do with the English article, so maybe we should just leave it there for now.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I'm aware of how to use series ordinal (have a look at William Joseph (Q61744235) 😊).

The question is rather what to do with the many, many, many instance=human that already use double name items that aren't what you define as proper compound names. Maybe we should move this discussion over to Wikidata:WikiProject Names to get an opinion? It's a bit of a tricky subject as there's also personal choice involved. In my country it would simply be up to the name-bearer her/himself to choose whether they want to use their full given name or pick one or the other. Or use an initial.

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

The situation is not that bad actually. Have a look at this query (usage statistics of compound given names without a hyphen): firstly, you see that this is predominantly a Spanish phenomenon, but not exclusively. There are certainly some cases in the list which are not compound given names, but considering that we have more than 3 million given name statements, the situation is acceptable.

You can nevertheless raise this at WikiProject Names, but my experience is that there is not much activity.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I've probably created a lot of those Spanish ones myself!

After some quick googling it looks like this might partly be a language issue. George Bernard, Mary Anne, or indeed "William Joseph" would be considered double names in English. Names like "Jeanclaude" or "Maryanne" would be compound names. In Norwegian (my native language) a double name is a double name whether a hyphen is used or not.

I'll hold off on creating any more of these and try to clean up a little with the ones I've created already, thanks for noticing me!

MisterSynergy (talkcontribs)

Okay, in that case I do recommend to raise this at WikiProject Names. Maybe someone can provide more knowledge than I can :-)

Reply to "William Joseph"
89.70.142.54 (talkcontribs)

Hi, they are exactly the same name and should be merged. Differences in spelling are negligible. ~~~~

Moebeus (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Kasylda/Casilde"
Multichill (talkcontribs)

Hi Moebeus, if someone (especially an admin of the project) puts "Please discus on talk page before removing again." in the edit summary, you shouldn't ever undo that edit without going to the talk page first. This is considered quite rude and is how you get yourself blocked on one of these wiki projects. Please don't do this again.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I'm sorry about that, just know that it wasn't my intention to be rude and I'll do my best to not have that happen again.

Reply to "Howto: Discussion"
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

18:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Reply to "Tech News: 2019-07"
108.71.133.201 (talkcontribs)

I don't know what you think a "music track with vocals" is, but it's a song. That's what we call them in English. If it has a composition, and it has lyrics, then it's a song.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

It's what it sounds like a: a recording of a song, with vocals. Have a look at Wikidata:WikiProject Music to see how songs>recordings>releases are organized.

Reply to "Song"
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Hello. I noticed you added Q48799541 to Spotify profile but I couldn't find it on his profile. I checked the most popular artists and I couldn't find it too. I don't guess verification badge will exists in any digital shop.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

It's a bit random to be honest, often smaller artists have blue verification badges because they actively work on their Spotify profile, Larger artists don't always have them, but more and more do as Spotify gets bigger and bigger: Like The Beatles, Madonna, Metallica, Elvis Presley all have a blue tick now. And Basshunter has one of course ;-)

BTW: I'm using the Windows desktop client, I'm not sure if the mobile clients show the verified badges?


EDIT: I checked the webclient now, I see that it doesn't display the blue tick. So yeah, I don't know when/if that will start showing there in the future.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

I couldn't find it on artist page in web browser. Maybe this feature was deleted?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

I couldn't find badge in any of archived versions but I restored this property. Was badge avaiable also at singles/albums pages?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Spotify Verified Artist-badges are only valid for Artists, not for songs or music releases.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Yes but maybe it was displayed at singles/albums pages by artists name. If yes I don't remember Basshunter had any in last years.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I don't think so, but I mostly use the Windows desktop client, so I wouldn't know what it might look like in other clients like iOS, Mac, Android, Linux.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Btw. do you know if it's possible to add Wikipedia id by names of languages? So if there is label in "English" and "German" there could be shown a "en" and "de" ids?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Maybe it's possible, but it's not not something that I know about, sorry.

Reply to "Basshunter"
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

17:11, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Reply to "Tech News: 2019-06"
Jc86035 (talkcontribs)
Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I spend a lot of time cleaning up after that guy running the imports from Hebrew wiki, yesterday he imported "producer" onto a whole bunch of compositions :-(

No, genre doesn't belong there. Setting aside that the designation of genres is completely willy-nilly and often contradicting or severely redundant, I always move them from the composition to the recordings (the same song can be recorded by any number of artists in any number of styles/genres) I don't spend any more time on it than that though, since it's so unscientific and random and it hurts me right in my OCD.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

....an example that people might be able to relate to is "Silent Night is an instance of Q56572789 (Christmas song), while a recording of Silent Night should have the genre of Q1443316 (Christmas music)".

Jc86035 (talkcontribs)

@ערן:

  • Could you manually check that the genres you are importing are accurate, and/or import genres from a larger Wikipedia edition? For example, I would consider it inaccurate to call Q60200417/Q60860519 an R&B song, as it also has elements of trap and pop.
  • Would it be possible to exclude items with MusicBrainz work ID (P435) or ISWC (P1827) with the tool that you're using to add this data?
ערן (talkcontribs)
  • genres for recordings / compositions - Moebeus raise good points. I think we should either consider to have a constraint for it, or defines genre as all known genres for recordings of relevant composition. (possibly connecting to the recording with qualifier?)
  • import from a larger Wikipedia - I disagree about this point. (Q60200417 will result in similar import whether it is hewiki or enwiki)
  • I'm using the harvesttemplates (written by Pasleim). Unfortunately I think it doesn't have (yet?) ability to filter by statements (other than the imported statement). Anyway I'll stop importing genres meanwhile till we agree on solution.
Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Thanks Eran! constraints would be ideal, but I seem to remember @Jc86035 mentioning they are simply overridden by auto-imports? I might be wrong about that, not sure.

Anyways, thanks for helping out👍

ערן (talkcontribs)

Moebeus, there are different tools for auto imports, but actually Pasleim's harvesttemplates (not sure about pywikibot harvest templates) does respect constraints

Reply to "Genres"
MediaWiki message delivery (talkcontribs)

18:14, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply to "Tech News: 2019-05"
Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

"Writter" according to . It's based on sources which not give more detailed information who composed lyrics or melody so I think it will be better to keep "Writter".

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Check the ISWC-listing, There they are both credited as CA (Composer/Author).

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

ISWC = International Standard Work Code. This is tied to royalties (money!) so I would give that information more importance. But it's up to you, of course.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Never seen this page. Looks like List of songs recorded by Basshunter will need to be updated. Do you know why many songs are missing (there is no "Vi sitter i ventrilo och spelar DotA" for example)? I'm using "Creator's name" with "ALTBERG JONAS". Do you know more interesting databases?


The more detailed and sourced the better.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I did some research: The reason why you can't find the ISWC for "DotA" is probably that it's not an original composition, but rather uses the Daddy DJ sample so much that it's considered a cover version. So I would start with building out Daddy DJ/All I Ever Wanted (T-901.691.612-4) to see what you can find.


Moebeus (talkcontribs)

The creators:

BELVAL JEAN-CHRISTOPHE FRANCOIS 00150415705 CA  
LE ROY DAVID PIERRE HENRI 00151518492 CA  
SIMONS SCOTT DAMIAN 00560231683 CA  
Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Daddy DJ Crazy frog version T-802.918.938-7:

BELVAL JEAN-CHRISTOPHE FRANCOIS 00150415705 C  
BOSS WOLFGANG 00292061574 C  
LE ROY DAVID PIERRE HENRI 00151518492 C  
RAITH REINHARD 00281452274 C  
REITH HENNING 00222631700 C  
BELVAL JEAN-CHRISTOPHE FRANCOIS 00150415705 A  
BOSS WOLFGANG 00292061574 A  
LE ROY DAVID PIERRE HENRI 00151518492 A  
RAITH REINHARD 00281452274 A  
REITH HENNING 00222631700 A  


Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

You added Ultra Records to record label. I don't know if we should use "YouTube publication" or "real release" from iTunes for example. If we would use YouTube labels there would be few labels. That's why I didn't added labels yet,

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

I added the reference as coming from Internet Music Video Database. I don't know if this site is very good, but I think it's good enough to use as a reference. Maybe set the preference to "deprecated", to indicate that you're not sure about the source?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

A couple of tips:

  1. Search for Creators name "BEGINS WITH" and the just the last name (Basshunter is not ALTBERG JONAS, he is ALTBERG JONAS ERIK)
  2. If you have it, Creator-Id is better than name. Basshunters Id is 00494248817
  3. Experiment with Title "contains" if at first you don't find a composition.
Moebeus (talkcontribs)

...and number 4: Not all songs are listed in http://iswcnet.cisac.org, this an aggregate service from local Copyright-databases and it's not complete. But you can be pretty sure that the ISWC-number exists somewhere, almost every modern composition will have one.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

...and number 5: It is quite common to have more than one IPI-number, even though they in theory should be unique. It's quite possible that more than one IPI exists for Basshunter.

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

Do you know there is a way to move whole properties between items?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

Absolutely! There's a gadget called "Move" that does the trick, I use it all the time.

EDIT: I you're not familiar, you have to enable it under your preferences>gadgets page

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

I have it enabled but as I see it works only with interwiki.

Moebeus (talkcontribs)

My bad, I got them mixed up. I think maybe it's a user-script, let me check..


EDIT: I think it's this one:

importScript('User:Matěj_Suchánek/moveClaim.js');


Let me know if it works

Eurohunter (talkcontribs)

It works. Thanks. Btw. maybe do you know some databases with sales data?

Moebeus (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Crash & Burn"
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