Wikidata:Project chat

Wikidata project chat
A place to discuss any and all aspects of Wikidata: the project itself, policy and proposals, individual data items, technical issues, etc.

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Main article: Shall be linked with it:  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • contribs) at 13:56, 10 November 2020‎ (UTC).

Some language names is not translated to other languagesEdit

Hello, i view that some language names, such as:

  • Central Bikol
  • Korean (North Korea)
  • Belarussian (Tarasklevica ortography)
  • Chinese (Min Nam)
  • Egyiptian Arabic
  • South Azerbaijaní

among others, is not translated to other languages. How can translate this? Thanks. --Rodney Araujo (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

  • If it really says "Egyiptian" rather than "Egyptian" that should also be fixed. - Jmabel (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Ditto for "ortography" rather than "orthography". - Jmabel (talk) 21:21, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Language names are translated via CLDR, is the edit interface (for Spanish), request an account at Editing there needs to wait as there is an edit freeze due to CLDR rolling out a new release.--Snaevar (talk) 22:32, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for pinging me. @Rodney Araujo: can you confirm that the examples you mentioned are taken from the termbox (the list at the top of an Item page, including labels, descriptions and aliases)? In which language was your interface when you noticed it?
If it's languages in the termbox: indeed, we're taking the content from CLDR, except for the languages that are not listed in CLDR, in that case we add them directly in Wikidata. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 16:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Is the only database of its kind out there?Edit

As there does not seem to be a WikiProject Pornography (Q14942913) then I leave the following message here. According to this query:

SELECT distinct ?human ?humanLabel ?playmate_id
    # Human
    ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
    # Playmate
    ?human wdt:P106 wd:Q728711.
    # with optional id in
    OPTIONAL { ?human wdt:P5346 ?playmate_id }
    # Additional humans with id in
    ?human wdt:P5346 ?playmate_id 
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }

Try it!

Of the 567 "playmates"¹ on Wikidata, only 230 have an Playmates Playmate ID (P5346), in addition to the fact that according to its web map it only has 301 registered playmates.

Do you know of a more complete playmates database that can be added to Wikidata as a property?-- 03:01, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

  1. It is worth clarifying that the query also contains 81 people who have an ID but whose occupation (P106) is not Playboy Playmate (Q728711), so you might want to check that.
/:An then you may have a look here for more related properties. Thierry Caro (talk) 12:31, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
Looks like is regional-based. For example, Cathy Lugner (Q20798793) was published in Playboy Slovakia, and there is no official website for Playboy Slovakia. However Cathy Lugner (Q20798793) is described at for whatever reason. There are other regional websites for Playboy, like Due to unclear url stability and seemingly low amount of identifiers per each website (<500), I suggest to use described at URL (P973) instead of creating a separate external identifier for each regional variant. --Lockal (talk) 12:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

About people with two or more eye colorsEdit

Through the following query:

SELECT ?human ?eyeColorLabel
  ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
  ?human wdt:P1340 ?eyeColor.
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }

Try it!

And filtering the results externally to obtain people with two or more eye colors I got the following:

I do not know how to indicate in the query that only return items that have a property with multiple values, but if someone knows how to do it would be good to explain it to me for future reference.

I don't think that all the people in the list have heterochromia iridum (Q461486) so it may be necessary to check in other sources to see if this is due to a bad import.-- 14:41, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@ Here's a query to get people with multiple eye colours:
SELECT ?human ?colours WHERE {
    SELECT ?human (COUNT(?eyeColor) as ?colours)
      ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
      ?human wdt:P1340 ?eyeColor.
      SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
    GROUP BY ?human ?humanLabel
  # can further filter ?human here if needed
  FILTER(?colours > 1).
Try it! --SixTwoEight (talk) 14:52, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
can also be done without a subquery, using HAVING:
SELECT ?human (COUNT(?eyeColor) AS ?eyeColorCount) WHERE {
  ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5;
         wdt:P1340 ?eyeColor.
GROUP BY ?human
HAVING(?eyeColorCount > 1)
Try it! --Lucas Werkmeister (WMDE) (talk) 10:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Member ofEdit

For a mason do we say member_of=masonic lodge (Q1454597) or say member_of=freemasonry (Q41726) or say member_of=freemason (Q23305046)? If the exact lodge has an entry I use that, as here: Special:WhatLinksHere/Q64966925. --RAN (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

  • If the information of the exact lodge is available I would create an item for it and use it. member_of=freemasonry (Q41726) looks better to me then member_of=masonic lodge (Q1454597). ChristianKl❫ 18:29, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
    • Shouldn't the value of member of (P463) be an actual organization? Not convinced that the changed from "instance of" to "instance or subclass of" for the type constraint was a good idea [1]. --- Jura 11:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
      • The exact lodge is the only one that fits exactly, do you think we need to create something new that fits "member_of=" better, or can we modify one to be a better match? We need something to let people know someone was a mason, all the other fraternal organizations have an exact match such as "member_of=Phi_Bet_Kappa" or "member_of=Schiners" or "member_of=International_Order_of_Odd_Fellows" or "member_of=Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks". Currently we are split among the various choices I mentioned above. --RAN (talk) 00:45, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
        • While Phi Beta Kappa or the IOOF are each a single organization, the Masons are not. Most lodges are affiliated and recognize one another, but there are definitely exceptions (e.g. Continental Freemasonry). - 01:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)~
      • I was of the understanding that the lodges do form an organization together, if that's not how Masons work then I agree that individual lodges should only be used. ChristianKl❫ 14:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
        • As I say, most do, some don't. I don't know my way around this in detail; someone else probably does and could weigh in with a better explanation. A good example is that the Order of the Eastern Star accepts women as equal members (and always has), which the F&AM still don't allow. - Jmabel (talk) 21:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
        • Modelling individual lodges (even if we can reliably work that out) sounds like it could get very complicated - there are (were?) thousands of them, and presumably a lot will only ever have one person linked in Wikidata. 21:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

How long does it take a change to a formatter URL qualifier to take place?Edit

The formatter URL (P1630) for US Congress Bio ID (P1157) was no longer working so I supplied a new one with preferred rank per the documentation. If I reload an entity using this property (Frank Leslie Smith (Q3068384) for instance), I don't yet see the updated URL. I don't see anything in the documentation about how this is technically implemented. Do I have to wait for some cache to be flushed? Are the pages generated on some sort of schedule? Thanks, Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 08:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Some caches are really to blame. The developers should probably be made aware that neither purging an item nor even making an edit will force the new formatter URL to be used (so it is possible there is a cache entry for this which was not invalidated correctly). --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 13:27, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
@Matěj Suchánek: Thanks very much. It seems to be working now. I still don't understand the mechanism. It would be good if the documentation had a few words to set expectations on when changes can expect to show up. If someone who knows would do that I be greatly appreciative. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 21:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Confirmed, now I can see the URLs correctly formatted. So judging from timestamps the delay could be somewhere between 5 and 13 hours but I really don't know. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 11:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Longstanding problem: see phab:T112081. As I understand it, the URL will never be reformatted, until the page is next edited. @Andrew Gray: Do you know if that is still the case? Jheald (talk) 18:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I think that's still the case. Although it's possible this is kind of a blessing in disguise - if someone changes eg the VIAF formatter url to go to some spam site, it's probably good that doesn't instantaneously trigger changes to a million linked items! I'll run the purging script for P1157 tonight to clean up this one, though. Andrew Gray (talk) 19:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
@Jheald, Gettinwikiwidit: Purging script is now churning away, and should take about 24 hours to touch every item and refresh it. I've had a look at a couple of items and they seem to be correctly displaying the new URL. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
As I understand it, the URL will never be reformatted, until the page is next edited. As I commented above, I did an edit and even that didn't help. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 09:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Which one of these external identifiers can be considered reliable reference?Edit

Hey, I'm adding references that I got from Wikidata:Automated finding references input dump. So far 40K has been added (and will add around 30K more). here's an example. I have been adding references from external identifiers that are obviously reliable (e.g. National library of Spain). But I'm not 100% sure of these ones. If you know them, can you tell me if they are reliable enough to have their refs added to unreferenced statements?

I feel Internet Archive ID (P724) and MusicBrainz label ID (P966) are clearly unreliable but I'm not sure about the rest. Amir (talk) 15:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

  • The question is what statement (property) you want to reference with it.
Unfortunately, I don't recall the Automated finding references input-team providing us with the list to review. Maybe this is available in the meantime.
You can obviously add all of the above identifiers to items. --- Jura 15:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Sources are not simply reliable or unreliable. Some sources are self-published and can be used about information on themselves (such as ORCID). Note VIAF and sources based on them are not always reliable as they sometimes pull data from Wikidata.--GZWDer (talk) 16:49, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I would add all of them as references. Data users should decide by themselves which references they want to use and which ones not. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Eh, we have minds, we should use them. Be not a robot. -Animalparty (talk) 02:28, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I feel Catholic Hierarchy person ID (P1047) is very reliable when it comes to Catholic bishops and dioceses. It is in fact a website run by 1 person, but he uses only official Vatican publications, often published only in Italian or Latin, as his sources. Powerek38 (talk) 21:31, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I agree with MisterSynergy. Some of these are not reliable enough to use them as a source for new fact, but still, it is much better to have claim referenced by unreliable source rather than unreferenced. --Jklamo (talk) 22:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ladsgroup: Igromania ID (P6827) is reliable source. It's Russian-language web site of a very large database of video game news and reviews. Used as a reliable source at least on and respectively. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 01:46, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
  • FamilySearch person ID (P2889) is 100% user-generated and thus generally unreliable, but it can be credible if the info for a given person is backed by documents. Use with caution. -Animalparty (talk) 02:28, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks User:Kirilloparma and User:Powerek38. I started the bot with Igromania ID (P6827) and Catholic Hierarchy person ID (P1047) which adds 10K more refs. Amir (talk) 03:28, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

  • SANDRE ID (P1717) is produced and administered by a National Agency and thus should be considered as a reliable source. Ayack (talk) 16:25, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
    Thanks. Added the bot. Amir (talk) 21:25, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ladsgroup: I'm quite familiar with GRID ID (P2427) - it is curated by Digital Science (Q30338362) with data pulled from a variety of national and international databases. It is not always correct, but I would judge generally reliable. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Thanks. Added Amir (talk) 18:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Query always timing outEdit

Hi folks - I've been using this query for a few years, and suddenly in the last few days it's timing out every time I try it:

Non-fiction writers (&subclasses) with labels in Spanish-but-not-English

Are other people having trouble getting queries to run? Or any suggestions for optimizing this one?

Thanks - Kenirwin (talk) 16:21, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Try something like --- Jura 17:03, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks @Jura1: -- can you tell me anything about what you did here or if there's any documentation on getting the queries to run better? It looks like you took out the part about being an instance of a person, but I'm not sure what else is happening here. Thanks! - Kenirwin (talk) 20:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
@Kenirwin: It looks like the human clause is still there at the end. It looks like the big practical difference is the ORDER BY clause is removed. The problem is that you have to pull all the entries in order to order them, so the LIMIT 10 isn't helping. Also, he used the wdt: prefixes rather than trying to pull out full statements as you did. On the query services page, you can find a link to "list of prefixes" to get to the documentation. Lastly he used the hint:Query which you can read about here. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 11:14, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Using sex or gender (P21) in Lexemes, pronunciation audio: I get "Potential issues"(constraints?)Edit

While editing the Lexeme for English: "frog" I added to a pronunciation audio file that the gender/sex is female. I get the impression that Property P21 isn't supposed to be used in Lexemes or it needs an update in constraints? LotsofTheories (talk) 08:03, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Use voice type (P412).--GZWDer (talk) 08:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
There's a citation needed constraint here. I'm a bass (Q27911). Should I add to my user page I'm a bass? In Sweden I once visited a choir and they told me I'm "2nd bass"(guessing the translation) or "andra bas"(Swedish). Does this help in creating a reference for my voice type? LotsofTheories (talk) 11:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Given that there seems no justification for the citation needed contraint I removed it. ChristianKl❫ 17:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
@GZWDer the pronunciation audio (P443) doesn't have voice type (P412) in allowed qualifiers constraint (Q21510851). Should voice type be added as an allowed qualifier to pronunciation audio? LotsofTheories (talk) 06:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I realized now that on the talk page for pronunciation audio (P443) there's an example about Lviv (Q36036) which happens to have voice type in it. I guess I might try to add it. If I can't edit it for some reason please add it if you can. LotsofTheories (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Item with wrong valueEdit

.NET Framework (Q5289) have wrong value: the version 5.0 is for ".NET" and not ".NET Framework". It should be removed. --2001:B07:6442:8903:C186:597:CF6A:C596 10:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

playtest (Q7203549) and playtester (Q102246013)Edit

How to make "connection" between them? Eurohunter (talk) 11:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

practiced by (P3095), field of this occupation (P425) Jheald (talk) 18:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
(strictly speaking, those are maybe the relations between playtesting and playtester). Jheald (talk) 18:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
@Jheald: Thanks. Eurohunter (talk) 20:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #443Edit

SciTLDR: one line summaries of research papersEdit

Has anyone played with this? Semantic Scholar is rolling it out now (Nature article). Would make a nice addition, and could help adding topics? --SCIdude (talk) 18:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Are you suggesting adding the one-sentence summaries to Wikidata items on papers? Assuming the text is public domain (AI and other non-human creations are generally non-copyrightable), how would this play out in practice? -Animalparty (talk) 20:14, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
So, there's an open question here about storing computed results in wikidata. A while ago I proposed computing pagerank and storing that as a new property. Now this SciTLDR has an advantage over that that for a given version of the summarization model the output is static (since papers are immutable). I'm generally in favor of doing this sort of stuff but I think we need to be careful to properly version and attribute it. BrokenSegue (talk) 19:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
The idea was that a summary statement would somehow make the process of finding "main subject" claims easier, or on the other hand, improve any search over all articles. Having abstracts might be similar---but abstracts have an introduction, these summaries apparently don't. Note also that you need to train the software yourself, data is not provided. --SCIdude (talk) 16:11, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Vaudeville performerEdit

Is there any way I can automate adding occupation=vaudeville_performer where description contains "vaudeville performer"? I was doing it by hand, but there are too many. --RAN (talk) 19:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): This report will list them. I presume you can quickstatements? 2 minute job. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


At Azariah Dunham (Q94521341) the conflict is giving a warning, can someone fiddle with the subclasses for American Revolutionary War (Q40949) so that the warning disappears? --RAN (talk) 20:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

It looks like it should work? American Revolutionary War (Q40949) is an instance of war of national liberation (Q1006311), which is a subclass of war of independence (Q21994376) > war (Q198) > armed conflict (Q350604) > conflict (Q180684) - which is a permitted class. Michael Collins (Q173196) has conflict:Irish War of Independence (Q208297), which is also instance of (P31):war of national liberation (Q1006311), and that's not showing any errors. Wonder if it's a caching problem somewhere? Andrew Gray (talk) 21:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
It looks like the fiddling fixed it, and the cache kept it un-fixed longer than expected. --RAN (talk) 23:40, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Template subpage to be used as language link?Edit

Maybe someone could answer to user:Wolverène's question: Talk:Q15692365?--Estopedist1 (talk) 16:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

It's Special:AbuseFilter/36; it should block addition of non-notable subpages, which according to Wikidata:Notability are "/doc, /XML, /meta, /sandbox, /testcases or /TemplateData" for templates, but it is also blocking links to others such as /end and /header for which the requirement in the policy is that the item has more than one sitelink. Peter James (talk) 20:27, 24 November 2020 (UTC)


I'm posting it here as this page hasn't been edited for over two (2) months, but is there any interest in proposing it? Should all the individual changes be proposed individually or could these be proposed as a package? Perhaps there are some people here that want to propose their own changes here, as I think that the Notability policy needs updating.

Wikimedia Commons uses a Wikidata-based system for organising media files now and having a much more broader Notability policy could benefit this project. Furthermore, Wikidata has items for individual celestial bodies that may have only been observed by a handful of astronomers, while there are major local buildings and monuments with entries on Wikimedia Commons but not Wikidata. I'm not proposing the change here in the Project Chat, I'd rather see more eyes on this page so more improvements could be made and the discussion could continue. Especially since discussions about the Notability policy have been held for years that seem to end abruptly with no changes happening often due to disinterest and all parties moving on. -- Donald Trung/徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 22:09, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

What problem, exactly, are you trying to cure? --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:59, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
That’s the big question. I might be wrong, but this might be a solution looking for a problem. @Donald Trung: Could you summarize which concrete discussions of the last few months could have been resolved by applying your proposal? --Emu (talk) 14:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
I think the only difference between the cases is that somebody has bothered to create items for the astronomical objects (probably by importing from another database), but nobody has bothered to create items for the "major local buildings and monuments". I don't think it's a notability issue. Ghouston (talk) 00:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Should I merge Q10858442 in Cell (Q2349697) ?Edit

Both pages contain the Wikipedia disambiguation pages of the cell.

And936 (talk) 06:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Probably not, according to Help:Modelling/Wikipedia_and_Wikimedia_concepts#Disambiguation_pages: "Disambiguation pages are grouped by form, not by meaning. All the Wikipedia and Wikivoyage pages with sitelinks to a Wikidata page should have exact same spelling apart from the exceptions listed in the guidelines of the respective projects." Ghouston (talk) 06:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
No, disambiguation pages are for exact string matches. It might be possible to have a way with redirect pages that links those together, but that requires change in redirect policies on some Wiki's. ChristianKl❫ 13:53, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
@ChristianKl: So you say I should merge these 2 pages. Am I right? And936 (talk) 16:31, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
No, you are exactly wrong. You should not merge them. As ChristianKl and Ghouston have explained. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Bulk import on data from College Basketball site - data issuesEdit

Someone appears to have done a bulk import of data from this site. Problem is they did not account for data already on the site, leading to significant duplication.

At a minimum, there is now significant duplication under P118 (league), and P54 (member of sports team). For example :

Other issues include duplication of players in cases where the existing record did not have P3696 populated, an inclusion of 2020 as end time (P582) for all players, including those still active.

Can someone suggest the syntax of a SPARQL search to find all cases where Q94861615 is entered twice for a page under P118 to at least start to understand the scope of the issues/duplication? CanadianCodhead (talk) 17:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

--GZWDer (talk) 18:15, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, 9000+ duplicated, ugh...CanadianCodhead (talk) 18:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

9000 duplicted for that league. There are other leagues. Fortunately, per league, it's a job of moments to get something like quickstatements to delete the duplicate statement - Help:QuickStatements#Removing statements. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:02, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Technically duplication is possible for other leagues, you can play in the Bundesliga, leave to go play in Ligue 1 and then return to the Bundesliga. So long as the start and end times are populated it is perfectly valid. You can not however go play somewhere else and then return to college basketball. Your entire stay is contiguous. CanadianCodhead (talk) 19:33, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I've spent a few hours in the last few days trying to clean up hundreds of duplicate newspapers the same user had imported. They've been apppropriately contrite but have done nothing to help in the cleanup, as far as I can tell. --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 20:43, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
@Matthias Winkelmann: when complaining about any user it usually makes sense to ping them to allow them to respond to the criticism. ChristianKl❫ 10:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

What's the proper syntax/format to use QuickStatements to remove just statement 1 from the items? So for example to remove from Q16205693 statement Q16205693-266E0290-2DCA-4AC9-B1E1-D404C7A4C3C1 ? I cant figure out how to do that. It seems straightforward in the help file, but it is generating an error when I try it. I use quickstatements to load data frequently, so am familiar with the tool, but cant seem to get the remove syntax correctCanadianCodhead (talk) 16:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

As below. Seemed to work. The first hyphen gets changed to a $. diff --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-STATEMENT Q16205693$266E0290-2DCA-4AC9-B1E1-D404C7A4C3C1

Thanks - it was the $ I was missing. Should not try to read documentation on 75 minutes of sleep...CanadianCodhead (talk) 17:32, 26 November 2020 (UTC)


Hello. I have just initiated Wikidata:WikiProject Tourism/Participants. There is no actual project yet but at least we can now ping people interested by this topic. If you are one of these people, don't hesitate to put your name in the list. Thierry Caro (talk) 18:41, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Merging duplicate itemsEdit

Hiǃ I wanted to request the merge of items Q15684647 and Q5955430, which are duplicated but apparently reject an automatic merge. Thanks in advance! --NoonIcarus (talk) 09:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

They're not the same people. Different DoBs, amongst oher things. That is why someone has added Q15684647#P1889 to prevent erroneous merges such as your suggestion. You *really* need to look harder at items before suggesting merges. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:12, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Need Help With Authority ControlEdit

Hello out there in Wikidata land! I'm very new to WD and know almost nothing about Authority Control. While I've tried to learn as I go, I must admit to failure. I added the Authority Control template to the "Rocky Kramer" Wikipedia article and then did my best to update each of the data inputs on the corresponding WD page. That resulted in nothing propagating on the article, so I asked at the WP Help Desk, where I was told I hadn't inserted identifiers. I tried looking up identifiers and only became further confused. Someone at the WP Help Desk gave me some WD usernames to ping and one directed me to this chat. Therefore, I humbly ask if there's anyone who can help me get the Authority Control working for this article? Thanks much. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 09:44, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Identifiers are the ID properties found, for example, at Q42#P214 and below. Rocky Kramer (Q100744874) lacks any of these. Find some values and appropriate properties for your musician and, if they are included in the IDs which the wikipedia template pulls through, then all will be happy. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:08, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
That's where I get lost. First, where do I find the identifiers and once I have them, where do I insert them to make the Authority Control populate? I'm assuming I enter the Identifiers on the WD page and they will automatically propagate to the article? I apologize for being so ignorant when it comes to Authority Control, but it just seems complicated to me. Thank you for your help! --Warriorboy85 (talk) 10:51, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
P.S., I mean where do I find them for a musician? --Warriorboy85 (talk) 10:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Warriorboy85: For a musician, probably places like discogs or musicbrainz ... for these two the value 7596392 would be added with Discogs artist ID (P1953) and f55827bb-4224-4db8-bf72-0a19a3f106ef would be the value for MusicBrainz artist ID (P434). If you look at the property items, you'll see use examples which hint at which bit of the URL you need. To get ideas for other IDs, look at items for other musicians; does Rocky have an entry at the same places they do? Does that help? --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I went to sleep. Yes, that's very helpful. I have now looked at both Discogs and Musicbainz and I believe I'm starting to catch on. However, now that I have those two identifiers, where do I add them in Rocky's WD page? I see lots of places I can add numbers as references, but I don't see anything listed for either Musicbainz or Discogs. Should I add them as new categories? --Warriorboy85 (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Warriorboy85: Right at the bottom of the Rocky Wd page, a link saying "add statement". Click that. THe cursor will focus on the property cell os a statement box. Enter part of the 'Discogs artist ID' string into that, and chose the property from the list it provides. Then tab thru to the central cell and add the value. Hit publish. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:45, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: Okay, now that really helped me understand a lot! I can't thank you enough. I've added those numbers and now have a basic idea of what I'm looking for. I'll look at other musicians to find the types of identifiers that might be out there. I really appreciate your help. This WP and WD community is exceptionally helpful and I appreciate and value it greatly. Happy Thanksgiving! --Warriorboy85 (talk) 17:13, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: Well, I got Rocky's ISNI and ORCID numbers posted and they now show along with his MBA number. Although I added his Discogs number and it took the number, it isn't showing. He also has a BMI Repertoire at [Kramer BMI] I have attempted to input his CAE/IPI # and even tried listing individual songs by their ISWC numbers, but the exclamation point keeps coming up saying there is missing information. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thanks again. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 20:37, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

List of Q-items by number of statementsEdit

Hi, for Wikidata_talk:Lexicographical_data#Semi-automated_import_of_missing_lexemes_based_on_the_Q-items_with_most_statements I would like a list of Q-items (optionally that has a label in Esperanto) sorted by the number of statements. Is that possible without having to download the dump? If someone has access to a database where this information is available I would be very happy to receive a list of the first 50.000 items or so.--So9q (talk) 10:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Here's what I came up with, because how can you not invest time in a request that includes the phrase "optionally has a label in Esperanto"): Query
This is rather not what you asked for, unfortunately. I couldn't find an existing list. Absent that, the straightforward query (as above without the line that includes "P31") is certain to time out, because it involves reading all of the data.
I am not entirely convinced that list would be helpful for your purposes, though. Intuitively, I believe a list by count of statements will include (1) countries, (2) movies (lots of actors etc.), and (3) other artefacts. Every paper coming out of the Large Hadron Collider has every single project participant as a co-author, for example. If that is reflected in our data, the list would be dominated by [Y particle flux in plasma conjunction is tri-symetric under Gedfeller conditionality]. There may also just be items with proper names at the top of such a list, because these are the same in any language and therefore have lots of (auto-generated) labels.
In the query above, I limited the list to instances of subclasses of human activity, which allows it to complete within the 60s we get. The chosen class(es) additionally restrict it to items that would seem to be meaningful for your purposes. You would vary that restriction to look at other promising segments. --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 12:48, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh, thanks for pointing out my flawed strategy :) You are completely right that most statements is not suitable for my needs it seems. I really like your query as it seems to count the labels instead. I will try to use that and maybe a list with statistically most often used words in Esperanto which seems to be exactly what I want.

@So9q: I was playing around with a tool doing things with the wikidata dumps and used your question as a test. I've put the data I came up with on my userpage. This includes the top 3500 items or so, with repetitive items omitted. Japanese surnames figure prominently, as does unicode. Top billing goes to a research paper, however. Clicking it may kill your browser. --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 21:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Mattias, that was an interesting list. The labels seems to be counted as a statement in your list, but they are not when searching on Wikidata using the searchbox. What would be the result if you ignored labels in the count of statements?--So9q (talk) 05:51, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

"merge" of two erroneous items to a new item?Edit

The items Premil Petrović (Q53110639) and Premil Petrović (Q95770358) seem to refer to the same musical conductor, actually Premil Petrović according to his website. (The c-cedilla usually takes the c-acute form when at the end of slavic language words).

As a neophyte, can I request someone else merge these/ sort this out please? Scarabocchio (talk) 12:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

done --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 13:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! That looks like a merge into one of the existing entries plus an edit on the label? (I should have tried that). Scarabocchio (talk) 14:16, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Yes... The merge function should be in the top-right corner, possibly under "more". It will automatically merge into the item with the lower ID, and throw an error if there are specific indicators that the items are not, in fact, duplicates (such as "different from" statements). After that, I straightened out the labels per your explanation and also added the website you mentioned. I tend to also check for duplication of data and remove excessive "imported from / XY Wikipedia" references, but there's no specific process prescribed here.
As always: start with just a few (thousand). And, if nobody comes screaming, assume you're doing ok. Like childcare, basically. --Matthias Winkelmann (talk) 20:01, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
We do have that describes merging in more detail. One thing that's worth noting is that the merge function is only available if the gadget is activated. ChristianKl❫ 23:19, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, both. I think that I will be spending more and more time here, so need to master the basic operations. Scarabocchio (talk) 20:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Great. Merging items is indeed one of them. So, in general, I think it's preferable to help users find Help:Merge than merge them directly for them.
    Thanks to that, we recently revised it and collapsed some sections users sometimes got lost with .. if there are other parts that need clarification, don't hesitate to mention them. --- Jura 17:37, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I enabled the gadget following the links above, and have just merged my first pair of items (to Sanna Gibbs (Q64682995)) .. very smooth, very clear, no problems! Scarabocchio (talk) 18:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

New external identifierEdit

I would like to have a new external identifier added. How do I go about this (or preferably have someone who knows how to do this do it)? The identifier would be: ArtFacts ID. DoSazunielle (talk) 14:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

See WD:PP.--GZWDer (talk) 15:58, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment about mass importEdit

Hi, last week B.Zsolt did a mass edit on some railway stations, importing some data. I saw that he edited the item about the railway station in my small city adding toilets. I think that he imported mass data from OSM without checking whether statements are valid (toilets are always closed). Moreover, I don't think he can import data from OSM as license are incompatible. As soon as I checked that edit, I wrote in the user page of the user but he ignored my request, so I write here. --★ → Airon 90 08:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

I do not think we can mass-import OSM data--Ymblanter (talk) 20:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
You can only import data from OSM if every single contributor of an object has stated that their contribution is released as CC0. ATM very few do this and there is no simple way of machine-checking if the user released as CC0 in the profile which means that it is practically nearly impossible to import anything you did not create yourself that has version 1 (no other contributors). Most objects have version >1 and multiple contributors. I tried as a test to import hospitals from Chad in WD from OSM and asked all contributors of a few items for permission. Unfortunately few answered, so I deem it impossible to use OSM data in WD in practice because of license incompatibility.--So9q (talk) 06:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

US senator statements clean-up neededEdit

There are dozens of subclasses listed with has part (P527) at United States senator (Q4416090). Would someone kindly delete these malformed statements?

Also, the still existing malformed and unused items like Q98082299 should be listed for deletion. --- Jura 19:38, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Not sure why you reverted my move to the relevant section, but you seem to be starting a topic about the same thing. You're seem to be leaving out why you are not doing this yourself. Maybe because the deletion request got half done by user:Wiki13 and half not done by user:MisterSynergy? Just starting a new topic out of the blue sure looks fishy. Multichill (talk) 10:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
This is about the item United States senator (Q4416090).
The other section is about electoral districts called "class A Montana" and similar. (There is also one about general elections in the US).
I have been asked not to clean up such stuff myself, but post it to the forum. So here it is. --- Jura 10:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I have deleted the remaining ones as another data model has meanwhile been chosen and implemented. —MisterSynergy (talk) 12:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. As long as they are subclasses, the P527 statements are wrong in any datamodel.
Can you also delete the two remaining statements: e.g. United States senator (Q4416090) has part (P527) Majority Leader of the United States Senate (Q28530268)? --- Jura 12:48, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Consistency of dates between point in time and temporal processesEdit

Hello, it might have already been discussed. But I'd have a question : is there a way to tell that a instance of (P31) (eg historical event (Q13418847) is about a point in time and therefore instances of that P31 should be having a simple point in time (P585). In the contrary, if a instance of (P31) (eg any temporary exhibition (Q29023906) ) is about a temporal process (it has commenced and it has ended or shall be ended == 2 dates) and therefore should get both start time (P580) + end time (P582) ? Would property "timeframe of that element" = point in time (Q186408) OR time interval (Q186081) "do the job?Bouzinac💬✒️💛 11:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Two cats for one thingEdit

Hi all. Item Q9032983 and item Q7696450 are about the same issue: Category:Universities in Turkey/Universities of Turkey/Turkish universities or whatever name you like. Look at the WP links and you will see that some language WPs use one of these items and the others the other one, although the contents in the respective languages are the same. I could not merge them. Probably some WP has links to both? I do not know. For some reason I feel myself not so good today; therefore help of colleagues would be most welcome. Thanks in advance. --E4024 (talk) 17:18, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

They're not the same things, at least according to their EN labels - universities, versus universities and colleges. Greek has sitelinks for both, calling one a category of universities, and another a category of higher educational institutes. Were someone to wish to improve the situation, they would have to work out sitelink by sitelink what was found on each langauge wiki, and variously redistribute sitelinks and possibly create new items. Merging is unlikely to figure in the solution. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:28, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
EN labels? I just added EN label to one item that I saw there orphan as it was. Now am I the one who created a "differentiation" between the two? :) I had just opened a cat for Universities of Turkey in CA:WP and went to make the WD link and saw one item without any EN label and linked it. I also thought I should write a label there. Oh my! --E4024 (talk) 17:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Need help removing aliasesEdit

Is there any automated tool that can remove aliases in bulk? I ran an OpenRefine job that accidentally added the item ID of several items as an alias (e.g. it added "Q151521" as an alias to Texas A&M Aggies (Q151521)). QuickStatements apparently doesn't support using "-Aen" as a header to remove an alias, so I'm at a loss as to how I might remove these bad aliases. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks, IagoQnsi (talk) 20:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

I have a pywikibot script which can do this. All I need is a list that maps the aliases to remove to QIDs and the language code of the alias to be removed (any txt based format and formatting possible). If you can provide such a list, I could feed my script with it and remove the aliases. —MisterSynergy (talk) 21:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
@MisterSynergy: Oh thank you! Here's a CSV of the IDs and aliases: Not all of those aliases actually exist -- my batch upload only affected a few hundred of the 922 instances of university and college sports club (Q2367225) that exist on Wikidata. Thanks, IagoQnsi (talk) 23:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  DoneMisterSynergy (talk) 23:34, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Inverse of academic degree (P512)Edit

Q item academic degree held by (Q66499315) currently claims it is the inverse property label item (Q65932995) of academic degree (P512). If that was the case, it should be a P item, not a Q item. Am I correct? Should this be changed? Mateussf (talk) 20:44, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

You are not correct. Properties may get an inverse property label item associated with them, whether or not there is an inverse property. This is one of the 'not' cases. All is good; we do not really have a use for the inverse property, but a user might well wish to reach for the label. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't fully understand the concept but I appreciate the answer and the attention, and I'm glad I didn't do anything wrong before asking. Thanks! Mateussf (talk) 01:46, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I made an item about the gadget. Maybe that helps: relateditems (Q102435390). --- Jura 05:44, 29 November 2020 (UTC)


We haven’t focused much energy on building out our coverage of agriculture. There are lots of opportunities for merges, multilingual labels, external ids, etc. in the areas of agricultural tools and processes. Is anyone interested in a formal WikiProject:Agriculture? If not, I’ll putter along. - PKM (talk) 22:01, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@PKM: I looked at the profession tree from farmer (Q131512) last year - some discussion at Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2019/05#Farmers_and_agriculturers?. But I didn't manage to do much with the underlying field itself, and I found there was a lot of cross-language complexity to tease out (eg in some "farming" can primarily indicate arable, in others pastoral+arable). Definitely worth looking at. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Andrew Gray: Thanks for that link. We had a longish conversation on Commons Telegram recently about classifying types of hoes - this is an area with lots of overlapping sets across languages and cultures. (I notice Getty AAT has at least one term that is specifically Spanish-Chile.) I think we’d need a large team of participants to really make headway. - PKM (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Cleaning up old model for US Senate dataEdit

As suggested here by @MisterSynergy:, I plan on removing position held (P39) United States senator (Q4416090) which do not supply a term. The only information contained in such statements not contained in those which do supply a parliamentary term (P2937) was spotty and occasionally inaccurate. The statements which do supply a parliamentary term (P2937) contain the complete historical record (excluding the results of the most recent election). Still to do is to supply elected in (P2715) but that is pending an organization of election in the United States (Q279283) which should distinguish between scheduled general elections and unscheduled elections in a rational way and perhaps have a clear model to indicate midterm elections. I'll probably do this work at the end of next week if there are no objections. Regards, Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 03:21, 29 November 2020 (UTC) @Tagishsimon: @Oravrattas: @Andrew Gray:

So you want to delete the information about the current senators?
Can you provide us with a sample edit? How do you make sure that other data is complete?
As this provides us with a way of querying the current composition of the senate (e.g. position holder with a start date, but no end date), I don't think it's a good idea to delete these statements before you fixed the other statements (deleting fictive dates, as previously mentioned).
To sum it up: No data should be deleted before we can check the same information is available otherwise. --- Jura 05:29, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
current members. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 10:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Gettinwikiwidit: Looks good, but I have also been wondering about end dates.
Sitting senators in the current term all have their end dates set to 3 January 2021 (except two no-P582, oddly), and presumably once we index the next term, they would get 2021-23 dates. However, there's a widespread convention to indicate positions which are currently held by setting start time (P580) but not end time (P582) qualifiers, even if a future end date can be predicted with some confidence. A lot of queries use this as shorthand ("presence of a P582 = not current") in much the same way that a birthdate but no deathdate is used to infer "person is alive". So I'd agree with dropping P582 qualifiers on the current members, which will make a traditional-assumptions query like this one predictably return sitting members with new-style data. (If we do have a need to use predicted end dates, we can pick that up easily enough by querying the end date of the term itself.)
Otherwise, definitely happy to remove all the "old-style" single statements. And then I think we'll have a pretty much consistent dataset, give or take a bit of error correction - congratulations! Andrew Gray (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Andrew Gray: I'm agnostic about end time (P582)s. I think it's always up to the person generating the query to be careful in interpreting the data since anyone can edit the data set. When the full data set was generated they all had an end time (P582). When I first started looking at the data in the old model it was also inconsistent and I had to figure out how to deal with future end dates. Deleting them now just means they will need to be added again in a couple of months. If someone leaves early the end time (P582) will have to be edited either way. As long as the future date can reasonably be assured I think supplying it is a defensible position. I think leaving them out is also defensible. Further, I don't own this data. I'm not sure who's job it will be to add the end date in the future. That person is free to remove them now to make work for themselves in the future. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 21:56, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
It is yet more making it up as you go along, Gwwi. There are not distinct districts. 'end date' != 'anticipated end date'. Your caveat reporter point is absolutely the case if the content of statements bears little resemblance to the plain intent of the properties. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:17, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: It's not clear what value is added by turning this into a trading of insults. It's a fact that this is a volunteer effort. With that comes realities that need to dealt with. From a process stand point it's not clear that future dates will ever be added. Having them there when they're reasonably predictable means it's more likely to *remain* accurate in the future. My guess is that people jumping on all the "popular pages" will hand edit them to keep them up-to-date but the rest will be left to rot. No future dates are ever realized. If it were really a problem they could simply make it impossible to supply them. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 22:27, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Not for nothing, but harassing people contributing data makes it even less likely that they'll put in the effort to maintain it which further makes the case for having them there. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 22:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Gettinwikiwidit: Personally, I would say the benefits of consistency here probably outweigh the minor hassle of having to update it in a few weeks (especially since we'll have do do a batch of edits then anyway to get all the new members in place, so closing off the older ones isn't much extra work). I'm happy to put a note in the calendar and take responsibility for sorting that out in January. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:05, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@Andrew Gray: From a process standpoint this seems like unnecessary busy work for the reasons outlined above, but as I say, I'm agnostic on the topic. Feel free to remove them now and add them back in later. In any event this has no bearing on the topic at hand of removing the old, inconsistent and occasionally inaccurate claims. Gettinwikiwidit (talk) 23:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Sure - I'll run this tomorrow if it won't cause any problems for you. (didn't want to blunder in and do it if it would complicate the ongoing work!) No objection to removing the older data, as noted. Andrew Gray (talk) 23:35, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

New badges for templates and modulesEdit

Some templates and modules are developed in one wiki (Wikipedia) and re-used in other wikis. I think it could be interesting to note this on sitelinks of items with badges.

Sample: Module:Biblio is a copy from fr:Module:Biblio. Badges on sitelinks at Q102438737 could indicate it. --- Jura 08:51, 29 November 2020 (UTC)


Could someone recreate MediaWiki:Villagepump-url/sv with the text Wikidata:Bybrunnen and MediaWiki:Villagepump/sv with the text Bybrunnen as they have been re-established? --Sabelöga (talk) 09:53, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

  • As far as I can see the page isn't protected. Is there anything stopping you from this? ChristianKl❫ 13:16, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@ChristianKl: That's strange, regardless, I can't create them. --Sabelöga (talk) 13:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I have no undeleted it. Is that enough? ChristianKl❫ 14:04, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@ChristianKl:Thank you, it was also MediaWiki:Villagepump/sv as stated above. --Sabelöga (talk) 14:05, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
@ChristianKl: Any problems? --Sabelöga (talk) 14:25, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I undeleted that as well. ChristianKl❫ 21:45, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :D On another note that's really not that pressing, is that the page's content language could be changed on Wikidata:Bybrunnen to Swedish. But I'm not too sure what that does so no stress. --Sabelöga (talk) 04:05, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Linking a redirect?Edit

I noticed that Four Seasons Total Landscaping (Q101248727) was successfully linked to Wikipedia, even though the page on Wikipedia is a redirect to Four Seasons Total Landscaping press conference (Q101424698). I'd like to do the same for some other pages, such as Ruth Chandler Williamson Gallery (Q18325652) and w:Ruth Chandler Williamson Gallery, but the documentation at w:Template:Wikidata redirect is lacking and I can't escape the error message it keeps giving me when I try to make the connection. Help? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 21:13, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

  • At the moment work on the ticket that allows easy creation is stalled (@Mohammed_Sadat_(WMDE): might provide information on when this changes). In the meantime you have to deactivate the redirect on the Wikipedia page shortly then set the redirect in Wikidata (at a time where the Wikipedia page is not a redirect) afterwards you can reedit the Wikipedia page to turn it into a redirect. ChristianKl❫ 21:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Are these two the sameEdit

Natural History of New York (Q51508328) and Natural History of New York (Q51431792) or are they different printings of the same set, or is one the set and one an individual volume? --RAN (talk) 23:12, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Q12142126 seems to cover two unrelated topicsEdit

Q12142126 covers both en:Hillpark, Auckland a suburb in New Zealand, and also the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Ukraine. I've removed the latter link, but then realised there's lots of metadata in the item for both. Rather than do any further damage to the Wikidata item, I'm posting here to ask someone to sort it out. The article on the suburb does not appear damaged by the link now that I've removed the link, but the article on the Politburo is pulling location and a picture which is irrelevant to it. I have no understanding of Ukrainian language,-Gadfium (talk) 02:55, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Looking at the history of the qid, it seems that it is supposed to be for the politburo and for some reason was merged with the suburb qid a few days ago.-Gadfium (talk) 02:58, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
I reverted Q12142126 and Hillpark (Q28180683), hopefully that's enough. Ghouston (talk) 05:14, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Likewise for User:Wemyang's other merge, which isn't any better. Ghouston (talk) 05:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

pronunciation variety (P5237) for "Computer Generated"/speech synthesis (Q16346) English?Edit

I stumbled upon this item all your base are belong to us (Q54) and found that the spoken text audio (P989) missed having pronunciation variety (P5237). I didn't manage to find any "computer generated English" or "speech synthesis English" dialect/accent in Wikidata so I just added the general English (Q1860). Did I do the right thing? Does anybody know if there is a pronunciation variety which includes English pronounced by software? I did a query about subclass of English with little luck. Maybe Broken English (Q20504733) can be used in cases where speech synthesis is being used? LotsofTheories (talk) 09:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)