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Wikidata talk:Wikinews

Інтервікі в основному просторі назв / Интервики в основном пространстве имён / Interwiki in main namespaceEdit

uk: Я думаю, не варто ставити івікі основного простору на ВД, бо статті не співпадають точно, ба більше у деяких мовних розділах заборонено інтервікіботам працювати в основному просторі назв. ru:Я думаю не нужно ставить интервики основного пространства на ВД, ибо статьи не совпадают точно, более того в некоторых языковых разделах запрещено интерики-ботам работать в основном пространстве имён. en:I think we should not put interwikis of main namespace in WD as articles are not exactly equal furthermore in some languages' WN it is prohibited to add interwiki in main namespace via bots. --Base (talk) 11:38, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Link Wikidata to WikinewsEdit

Hi, i think, the best way to link Wikidata and Wikinews is through the Category item as did for Commons. --Mikani (talk) 17:59, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Item? Did you mean a property? Could you provide an example of what it should look line in your opinion. Unfortunally i havent catch your idea as for now. --Base (talk) 22:49, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

General questions, obviously from a limited understanding of WikidataEdit

There are quite a few points that need significant clarification before I (and several other Wikinewsies) are going to be particularly happy driving any parts of Wikinews off Wikidata content.

Firstly, there's the inter-language/inter-project aspect. At a category level, for people or countries, that isn't going to be in any way contentious. But, when you start looking at topic categories, these may-well diverge such that you cannot link them in a meaningful one-to-one relationship.

This gets worse when you get down to individual articles. That is always going to be a human judgement call; we're not dealing with an encyclopedia, two news articles in different languages could focus on completely different aspects of the story - crosslinking them would be completely inappropriate.

Second, I'd like to give a gentle reminder that facts are not news. News is what was known at a specific point in time. Unless there is a mechanism to fix information pulled from Wikidata at a certain date, it cannot be used. Imagine pulling a death toll into an article published on the first of the month, and that figure creeping up in the days, and weeks, after we publish. That destroys the utility of a news archive.

The most-obvious point on Wikinews where details from Wikidata 'could' drive project content has to be Weather. I remember using really klunky tools to make up current weather maps, it would be great if something like that could be automated. --Brian McNeil (talk) 12:00, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Swedish WikinewsEdit

As you may know, the Swedish Wikinews is not active project anymore. However it's not closed, not even proposed for closing. So because it's still open, I think it should be added to the list also. --Stryn (talk) 19:49, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Inter-project linksEdit

I came here from the announcement to read about "Wikidata policies regarding Wikinews", but see quite a little of it. Are there any general recommendations how to use the inter-project links on Wikinews, or it is only up to language-defined communitites? Thanks. --Okino (talk) 09:14, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

OkinoIt's up to local language editions to decide but it may want to be consistent mostly. See also a related discussion. --Gryllida 08:52, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Motivation?Edit

What is the purpose here? It isn't in Wikidata's best interest, after all, to make itself a soution in search of a problem. This page says

Some news (events) in main namespace and Wikinews categories are created in multiple languages (see: n:Nelson Mandela dies aged 95, n:Category:Barack Obama). It's necessary to link the items through Wikidata.

Is that necessary, and if so, why? Is it desirable? Is it even feasible? These are all unclear to me.

Wikinews categories correspond to Wikipedia articles and to similar items in other wikiprojects.

That's not necessarily true. Some Wikinews categories correspond to Wikipedia articles. Others are typically linked to Wikipedia categories or portals; and there may be some others that are linked still differently, though I'm not thinking of them just atm. (I know there are are some that aren't linked to Wikipedia at all, though I'd hope that wouldn't be difficult to implement. :-)

It's necessary to link our projects through Wikidata.

I don't understand the philosophy here. I'd be interested in a reasoned argument that it's desirable; but I don't think it's self-evident that it's desirable, and I don't understand making an unsupported assertion that it's necessary. --Pi zero (talk) 15:03, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

  • The primary motivation - providing readers of all types of content on the subject and to attract new editors to Wikinews. For portals and other objects there are relevant items (see d:Q3271988). --sasha (krassotkin) 12:22, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Note, portals are, at least atm (and for some years now) effectively deprecated on en.wn; our redirects from mainspace go to categories instead of portals, and we're likely to further deprecate portals in future, possibly even turning them into simple redirects to categories.
Wikis have always been characterized by the care with which they are hand-crafted. One of the Wikipedia articles I was once involved in writing has an infobox that was created from the underlying elements out of which infoboxes are made, because the particular case had unique properties that couldn't possibly be expected to be handled by any infobox for a general class of articles; I do wonder if that careful, useful work will end up crushed under the Wikidata juggernaut. In the particular case of Wikinews, because different Wikinewses have different ontologies from each other, and those ontologies may be quite different from what one would set up for an encyclopedia, it can require much thought to decide what sister links to provide; and indeed the mappings might not be one-to-one. Turning over these highly customized decisions to a non-local project where the nuances would be wiped out doesn't seem like an obviously good idea. And, automation and loss of the personal touch are known to damage participation; there's the infamous case of Serbian Wikinews, which artificially boosted its output by setting up a bot to publish materials from news outlets such as Voice of America — with the result that user participation dropped precipitously, and they ended up with a large volume of news archives that nobody reads (in contrast to en.wn's news archives, which pull in quite a lot of traffic). --Pi zero (talk) 12:51, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
In Russian Wikinews portals also considered deprecated and gradually redirect to categories.
Linking of categories (point to point) will not hurt a tree of categories. A tree is constructed in projects. As far as I know, Wikidata do not plan transfer to itself tree structure of categories in any projects, even in Wikipedia.
There's a very small number of potential readers and editors in the Serbian Wikinews. Do not judge them harshly. But their bots are interesting at least for development for the future. --sasha (krassotkin) 08:42, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Interwiki linksEdit

Regarding the death of Nelson Mandela, as per above: from what I understand, Q15280038 has to be linked with Mandela dies aged 95 and with the respective languages e.g. with ca.wikinews, eo.wikinews, es.wikinews and so on. amirite? -- Ip.213.100 (talk) 12:47, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

No, separate news does not need to linking now. This is a completely different entity. They have no analogues in other projects. But in Russian Wikinews, we have a similar categories for some of the topics. For example: Category:Topics in 2014. See also proposal: Wikidata:Wikinews/Development#Interwiki links and discussion above. --sasha (krassotkin) 08:51, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

zhwikinews problemEdit

@Mingwangx, Ou0430, Waihorace, Byfserag, Gabrielchihonglee: and @Bencmq, Jusjih, Shizhao, TianyinLee, Zhuyifei1999:

n:zh:Wikinews:编辑部 vs. n:zh:Wikinews:记者室, both may look like Wikimedia:Community Portal (Q4654925).

NB: enwikinews n:en:Wikinews:Newsroom local linked first one, but second one IMO looks like zhwiki, and many iwlinks can be found on second. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:24, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Locked editionsEdit

Some editions of Wikinews are locked. Example: hu, sv, etc. We did not display previously and should not display interwiki to them now. --sasha (krassotkin) 07:43, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Swedish project is not locked. --Stryn (talk) 08:14, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Sweedish Wikinews is not locked, and was not closed. Rather, a gang of thugs from the local Wikipedia bypassed the process for closing projects in order to prevent it from operating. If Wikidata is going to participate in this farce, I'm glad I verified the other day that local projects can manually add interwikis not provided by Wikidata. --Pi zero (talk) 15:15, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Wow, how everything is difficult there. But we don't have to worry if the project is not locked centrally. My offer is applicable only to really locked projects. --sasha (krassotkin) 06:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

instance of (P31)Edit

== instance of (P31) == - changed for linking --sasha (krassotkin) 08:44, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't all items linking to Wikinews pages have a special instance of (P31) (something like "Wikinews article")? -Ash Crow (talk) 22:06, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I made (Iran to reduce nuclear enrichment in exchange for sanctions reduction (Q17587737) instance of (P31) Wikinews article (Q17633526)). How does it look like? by Revicomplaint? at 13:46, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
I think it is good :) Can it be added to all Wikinews pages by a bot ? -Ash Crow (talk) 21:17, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
It's an interesting idea. I propose to invite to this discussion users from other Wikinews editions and Wikidata. --sasha (krassotkin) 08:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
I created a similar item too: Russia accused of supporting Ukrainian rebels' advance (Q17812922). If no one will mind in principle, we will use it as standard. --sasha (krassotkin) 18:36, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Pleased to see something related to trying to work with Wikinews here. However, if Wikidata is to in any way structure, or document the structure, of information held in Wikinews you kinda need to go look at it. This is completed as an interwiki (and I'll gloss over any potential issues relating to linking different stories around the same event cross-language). Wikinews, in addition to 3rd-party sources, may source from prior published articles. That's somewhere automated data completion is on much-safer ground; because, as you'll at least find over on the English-language Wikinews, all published articles end up fully-protected for archive-preservation reasons. --Brian McNeil (talk) 19:50, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
    • It seems that you're worried about things that are not even invented:). Separate news will not use actual information from Wikidata for content in this stage because news articles are not updated. Now Wikidata may be useful to Wikinews for cross-linking or creating templates or content of service spaces (categories, portals, etc. through properties). In any case, all these additions are in the hands of local project editor. Only editor and reviewer decides to include something in the news/template/other page or not. --sasha (krassotkin) 12:21, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I am adding existing English Wikinews articles item to instance of (P31) Wikinews article (Q17633526). by Revicomplaint? at 07:56, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Thank you. Can you do it for other Wikinews editions with control existing interwiki? --sasha (krassotkin) 15:53, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
(RfBot filed) Yes, after my bot is approved. by Revicomplaint? at 15:56, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Bot is approved. Other language version will be run once enwikinews is done. by Revicomplaint? at 13:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
It seems that many news from Russian language version have no P31 statements (nor any other property...). Why is there no bot activity? --Infovarius (talk) 21:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
@Infovarius: I was too busy with other project / real life things. Hopefully I can run the bot starting this weekend. — Revi 10:52, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Ummm, ruwikinews:«Марш мира» пройдёт 21 сентября 2014 года... Problem creating item from Wikidata Item Creator.... — Revi 11:49, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Properties and test-case itemEdit

Please provide (may be first discuss?) good set of properties for news article, for example, Q17891305 for which I had problems. --Infovarius (talk) 21:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

  • @Infovarius: Q17891305 is Wikinews article (instance of) published 6 February 2006 (see template "Публиковать" in text). John McCain isn't author of this article and this article is not a speech. This Wikinews article also does not have an English version. I will correct now. --sasha (krassotkin) 10:00, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
    • @Krassotkin:, but it is about the speech of John McCain. How can we mark this fact? --Infovarius (talk) 11:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
      • Now we don't have a property for it. --sasha (krassotkin) 13:43, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Maybe New property proposal? — Revi 10:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
What about main subject (P921) speech (Q861911) author (P50) John McCain (Q10390)? --Infovarius (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Good stuff. Thank you! --sasha (krassotkin) 13:54, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Archive?Edit

Some discussions are old and no longer needed... I would like to archive it using Hazard-Bot. If nobody opposes, I will set bot archive for threads older than a month. — Revi 11:48, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

  • OK. --sasha (krassotkin) 15:51, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Reallllly?! The Phase two is still can't work on Wikinews, u should know. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:43, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
    • We look forward to its launch. ;) --sasha (krassotkin) 09:36, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

PropertiesEdit

Hello,

I looking for using of the properties on French Wikinews but it seems to be not activated. My purpose is to fulfill some infobox like it is done on Wikipedia (example). Is that avaible or not ?

Best, --Mattho69 (talk) 13:17, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

@Mattho69: see right, filed by me. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:08, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226: thanks a lot   --Mattho69 (talk) 16:03, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

language of work or name (P407)Edit

If there are the same news in several languages (like Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales to start wiki-based search engine (Q17596111)), which language we should point? Note that publication date (P577) can also have different values? How should we handle this? --Infovarius (talk) 04:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

"Proposals" at Wikidata:Wikinews/DevelopmentEdit

How do these "proposals" become concrete guidelines? Are they decided by administrators, or can we decide on them here and now? They have been proposed for about a year now. I want to get around to fixing cases like these where an article (a work of journalism) about an event on Wikinews is linked to an item about that event (these are two different concepts: a work about an event, and the event itself). This was also discussed elsewhere. --BurritoBazooka (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@BurritoBazooka: To my knowledge, these have been consensus for quite some time. You can act on them. (I've been doing so for some months, though my interest has been Wikinews topic cats rather than Wikinews articles.) --Pi zero (talk) 20:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Items for Wikinews language edition (Q20671729)Edit

I made items for the missing language editions (we had Persian only). Properties for logos and inception dates are somewhat incomplete, see this list. --- Jura 11:14, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Fundamental issues with Wikinews and WikidataEdit

As things stand, making claims on Wikinews items is problematic. This is because some news articles share a wikidata item along with wikipedia articles. For example, 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting (Q24561572) is linked to both Wikipedia and Wikinews. Right now is has a language of work or name (P407) claim which looks odd, because it is not explicitly stated that this claim refers to the news item. Arguably, in this example the language of work or name (P407) claim is redundant because the language is known by looking at the interwiki links. All the same, there are going to be conflicts due to this shared-item situation.

So, how should we get round this? Should we create some useful wikinews specific properties, so as to avoid confusion? Danrok (talk) 11:57, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Probably no help, alas, but, fwiw: Logically speaking, a Wikinews article can never really have the same topic as a Wikipedia article. Because it's always possible, in principle, for there to be more than one article, on a single Wikinews project, about the topic of any given Wikipedia article. If there happens to be exactly one Wikinews article about that topic, that's a coincidence (maybe a common one, but still, accidental rather than essential). This is why the topic of a Wikipedia article naturally gets the same item as a Wikinews category. --Pi zero (talk) 19:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
@Pi zero: Why can a Wikinews article never have the same topic as a Wikipedia article? Wikinews articles might be frequently about more fine-grained topics, but I think it's incorrect to say that they never share a topic with a Wikipedia article. --Yair rand (talk) 01:29, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
@Yair rand: Well, there are really two difficulties, and they're a bit hard to fully separate. I was trying to describe the narrower one, but perhaps that was just a sort of cowardice on my part. Because the broader difficulty I've never had any luck trying to discuss with a Wikidatan. I'm not sure if they classify it as Somebody Else's Problem because it's too broad, or if they decide I'm trolling (as an admin on two projects, I sympathize with troll-paranoia), or some subtle superposition between those, or what. But, you touched on the broader difficulty there: differences in topic coverage. The simple ones are merely one topic being narrower than another, and then there's the cases where they overlap but each has some coverage not in the other. I've always felt this was a design flaw in the idea of using Wikidata to drive interwiki links (at least, as it is to-my-knowledge actually done); interwiki links are, to my mind, an important vector for sister projects to help share readership by offering useful links to other languages, which properly requires an inherently subjective, thoughtful, case-by-case customization. I've seen things like n:en:Category:Guantanamo Bay, which covers a bunch of things that are likely to be separate Wikipedia articles, and may be separate categories on another-language Wikinews — and all of those Wikipedia articles should be sister-linking to the same en.wn category (which, last I knew, is impossible through Wikidata, so that driving things through Wikidata would diminish en.wn by depriving it of incoming links), likewise other-language Wikinewses may have multiple categories all with interwikis to the same en.wn category, and it's possible different Wikinewses could also break things up differently, resulting in deeply subjective choices of how to interwiki each other. I'm peripherally aware (though I don't alas recall specific examples) that those same problems arise between different-language Wikipedias. Some especially fraught correspondences arise in the more abstract Wikinews categories (en.wn has categories for Free speech and Freedom of the press, whereas most other languages seem more inclined to have a category for Censorship).

The narrow distinction I was trying to articulate, I'm still not quite sure how to put. We often say on English Wikinews, a news article is a snapshot in time. I imagine something fairly similar is likely to be true on any other Wikinews. A Wikipedia article isn't a snapshot; it's attempting to cover its chosen topic as well as it can and continuously improve that, rather than capture what things looked at from a particular vantage at a particular time and then preserve the record of that for posterity. Even if a Wikinews and a Wikipedia article were to start out congruent, the Wikipedia article won't stay that way because its objective is different. It's possible for two Wikinews articles to be different snapshots of the same topic, overlapping more deeply than two Wikipedia articles (on the same Wikipedia) ever would; I recall a case from a few years ago where (admittedly as an experiment and demonstration) a reporter wrote two articles on the same sporting event, one from the winners' perspective and one from the losers'. This, of course, also smears into the broader problem of differences in topic coverage: Wikinews article interwikis can get quite subjective when there are several articles about an extended event, in different languages, and every single one of those articles is covering things at a slightly different moment and from a slightly different perspective. If one insisted that articles only get interwikis when they're about the "same thing" by some objective measure, there'd likely be no interwikis on any of them, and as one relaxes that constraint one is apt to get quickly into situations where there are multiple equally good candidates for interwikis and one just has to make a subjective choice.

Anyway, sorry to ramble; I really do find this whole subject hard to get a handle on, which I suspect is not just me. But hopefully there's something useful somewhere in all that. --Pi zero (talk) 03:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

To merge or to not mergeEdit

Hi, I am not aware about Wikidata policy for Wikinews links, so could you tell me whether 2017 Women's March (Q28100410) and Q28483393 should be merged? Pamputt (talk) 07:12, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

  • They should not be merged because these are different entities. Wikipedia article is based on a number of events and news reports. Equivalent of an article on Wikipedia is a category on Wikinews. --sasha (krassotkin) 15:36, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

LBGT and homosexualityEdit

It was suggested to me (quite rightly) I should note this here, so others know what I've done and why, and can consider its wider implications. This is a particular case of a general problem that, truthfully, even Wikipedias have when they try to rely on Wikidata to generate interwikis. The purpose of an interwiki is to provide a link from a given page to the most nearly analogous page on another project; that isn't necessarily a one-to-one correspondence, and it isn't necessarily bidirectional. However, I'm looking at a case where there is a one-to-one correspondence between topic categories on different Wikinews projects. The awkwardness is that these Wikinews topic categories are not called the same thing.

Some of these categories are called LGBT (equivalent in whichever language), while others are called homosexuality (or its equivalent). No project has both, and I doubt any project ever will have both; it's clear that the interwiki links between Wikinews projects should connect all of these pages to each other, because they are the natural analogs to each other. If one were more concerned with associating each Wikinews topic category to the most nearly associated Wikipedia page, one would link some of these topic categories at LGBT (Q17884) and others at homosexuality (Q6636); but that would deprive the Wikinews projects of about half the interwikis that should connect them to other Wikinews projects (at least, it would deprive them of the interwikis if the Wikinews projects sought to rely on Wikiata to generate their interwikis, and if the interwikis were generated by the algorithm currently used). I maintain that interwikis between Wikinews projects are clearly the most important concern, and therefore all these Wikinews topic categories should be linked to the same Wikidata item. I take this to be LGBT (Q17884) because it is more general, so I've linked them all there. --Pi zero (talk) 17:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata:Project chat#Wikinews article sitelinksEdit

I left a question regarding Wikinews sitelinks at Wikidata:Project chat#Wikinews article sitelinks. Feel free to add your input there. Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 07:06, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Return to the project page "Wikinews".