Wikidata

Wikidata:Property proposal/rythme narratif

< Wikidata:Property proposal

pacing

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Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic

   Not done
Descriptionvideo game mechanic based on the rhythm of the player's actions
Data typeItem
Example 1Civilization: Call to Power (Q1027136)→turn-based (Q74023227)
Example 2Madden NFL 24 (Q119238637)→real-time (Q74023731)
Example 3Fallout 76 (Q54497595)→persistent world (Q736958)

Motivation

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The video games have different types of rhythm mechanic. They can be divided into three or even four categories: turn-based, real-time, persistent (and even medidative or zen, when the goal of the video game is to relax the player).

Nevertheless, there is not a real specific property for this. That's why I suggest this one.

Nota: in French, we could translate it by "rythme narratif", but if you have a better suggestion, please let me know. :)

  Notified participants of WikiProject Video games

YotaMoteuchi (talk) 01:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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In English, the label should be 'pacing' which is used very often in other sites or databases. YotaMoteuchi (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Pacing' sounds fine to me. Arlo Barnes (talk) 13:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To me pacing sounds like something subjective. "The game had great pacing." like a reviewer might say. It does not feel like a strict category. I am not a native speaker though. Matthias M. (talk) 10:34, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't recommend game mechanics (P4151) here. Indeed, if you refer to the discussion of the property proposal Wikidata:Property proposal/Système de jeu, you will see that it has been proposed for role games and gamebooks. That's why I suggest this 'Pacing' property. YotaMoteuchi (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
game mechanics (P4151) is used for video games as well. For instance, you may find it used for open world games. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 20:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see that game mechanics (P4151) is now used for video games, which detracts from the origin of the property. I think we're using a polysemantic word for a lot of unrelated things. Wouldn't using a more specific property be more appropriate? YotaMoteuchi (talk) 07:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma: would you like to give your opinion based on the response? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 06:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma:, would you like to give your final opinion based on the response? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 12:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@YotaMoteuchi: Well, I'm not exactly saying that we don't need a specific property. It's just that if you look at the {{Games properties}} template in the "All Games" category, you can see that there are some properties related to games, board games and video games that are reciprocally used and that's why we don't have for example a separate property called "video game mechanics" because we already have a semantically correct game mechanics (P4151) property. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 02:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that point of view. On another hand, some properties are quite similar (on another subect, for example, based on (P144) and inspired by (P941)) and it's not very easy to know if we need a more specific property in some cases.
Here, as I said Property:P4151 is a little mishmash, that's why I suggested this property. YotaMoteuchi (talk) 12:07, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma:, shall we proceed? Or do you have any objections? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 19:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Here too, game mechanics (P4151) shouldn't be used as I said before. Regarding the way it can be inferred from the genre, sometimes, a same game can refer to two types of 'pacing'. FF12 have a "real-time" pacing when you are walking over the world and a "turn-based" when you fight agains monsters. So, a genre is not always a good way to infer the 'pacing'. YotaMoteuchi (talk) 17:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dexxor:, any changes in your opinion based on the response? Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 12:45, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kirilloparma, Dexxor: pining for attention. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 07:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ZI Jony: I change my !vote to   Weak support because pcgamingwiki.com also has a pacing property. Dexxor (talk) 11:57, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Wait /   Oppose I actually agree we need something like that (I have long been thinking of something along these lines), but I think the proposal is under-developed. For the video game part of things, I would us to have a clearer picture of acceptable values (are the 3 in examples the only ones? Would Active Time Battle (Q1796885) for example be acceptable?), have mappings to other ontologies (does the Video Game Metadata Schema (Q61572854) have something like that?) and databases (what do Moby, IGDB, Glitchwave do here?). Does the future property also make sense for eg board games? The proposal is called “rythme narratif” in French, does it mean we need to involve Wikiproject Narration? Also, I don’t think property proposals are the best place to hold such discussions, and that we really should talk about such things beforehand. This is expected to be a major data modelling addition for a domain with close to 100K items, and it would go ahead with a bare 3 "weak support"? I think we need more work and more consensus here. Jean-Fred (talk) 06:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    (Also, for clarity: I would be more than happy to help with that work (research and consensus-building) ; but the timing of that proposal did not work great for me this time. I don’t blame ZI Jony for trying to move things forwards (indeed, without you, the proposal would have died down!) but I think the shorter lifecycle of property proposals can be at odds with the necessary research/discussion time) Jean-Fred (talk) 06:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello @Jean-Frédéric. Just for answering you regarding some points.
    I didn't found any pacing property on Video Game Metadata Schema (Q61572854). I can tell the same for IGDB or Glitchwave.
    Anyway, for Mobygames (and to tell the truth, it's this website who inspired this property here), we can found this category with the following genres: Meditative / Zen, Persistent, Real-time and Turn-based.
    This category can be also found on PCGamingWiki which is adding the Continuous turn-based genre.
    Checking some other websites, I found also that we could add a sub-genre of "real-time"; it could be "real-time with pause", but I guess it's the case for any "real-time" game (or 99% of these games) which should use a pause key or anthing like that.
    For the board games, yes, I would suggest a "turn-based" value.
    Regarding the French proposal, I tried to translate it and only found the expression "rythme narratif". I know that it's not the best translation but I couldn't find any French expression around the websites which could describe this property. Do you have another suggestion?
    YotaMoteuchi (talk) 22:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think we either need to chop up genre into tags like MobyGames or reject this. Turn based is redundant to turn-based strategy video game (Q2176159) and does not really apply to anything other than strategy games. I also fail to see the rhythm in persistent world (Q736958) which then overlaps with game mechanic. Also for third person shooters something like bullet time (Q126449936) is a game mechanic and not "rythme narratif" whatever that means. It would be "Erzählrhythmus" in German which is a technical term used to explain the montage in movies. So I   Oppose as well. Matthias M. (talk) 12:33, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Not done, no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 07:27, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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