Wikidata talk:Lexicographical data
Lexicographical data Place used to discuss any and all aspects of lexicographical data: the project itself, policy and proposals, individual lexicographical items, technical issues, etc.
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Moving a statement for irregular verbs?
editHi,
I noticed that around 1600 lexemes for verbs use instance of (P31)irregular verb (Q70235) (https://w.wiki/AX5f) where I would have rather used the more specific conjugation class (P5186)irregular verb (Q70235). What do you think, should we move it or not? and if so, does someone have a bot to move them?
Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 12:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- irregular verb (Q70235) doesn't look like specific conjugation class (Q53996674). --Infovarius (talk) 20:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think conjugation class (P5186) would be right, an irregular verb is a verb where conjugation behaves irregularly in some way:
- - The conjugation class is a property of a verb, so I don't think its values should be subclasses of verb (Q24905) (like how the gender of a masculine noun is "masculine", not "masculine noun").
- - "irregular" isn't a specific conjugation class. The verb might still have a conjugation class but be irregular because it has one or more irregular forms. It might be irregular because it follows one conjugation class for some forms and another for the rest.
- - Nikki (talk) 06:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Infovarius, Nikki: indeed, I'm not entirely convinced the current situation is right (especially as it's quite inconsistent) but my proposal is clearly not right either. I'll leave it (as least for now and until I have a better idea). Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 15:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
pa'al (Q7265893) and Fa3aL (Q114419665) etc.
editShould pa'al (Q7265893) and Fa3aL (Q114419665) (etc.) be linked in some way? My knowledge of Hebrew is very rudimentary and I haven't looked into the details, but these kind of pairs seem to be related. Disclosure: I have created the items like Fa3aL (Q114419665) and started to use them for Arabic varieties in statements like كَتَب (L1331764-F1)uses (P2283)Fa3aL (Q114419665). --Marsupium (talk) 21:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Proposal to bridge the gap between items and lexicographical data
editThe idea is to link Item labels, aliases and monolingual text with a corresponding lexeme. You can read more about it and post your comments on the phabricator ticket. 5628785a (talk) 21:44, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting and good idea. This bridge is not easy to cross (for many reason, including but not limited to homograph) but indeed more tool would make it easier. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 08:43, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Oxford dictionaries
editHi y'all,
Soufiyouns made 6 property proposal for Oxford dictionaries. Right now, the proposal are strangely going in various direction and I thought it might be useful to centralize the talk here.
First, the proposal were strangely on Wikidata:Property_proposal/Authority_control instead of Wikidata:Property proposal/Lexemes (I fixed that but some people may have missed some of the proposals, pages where there is already only low participation in normal times).
Mahir256 had a very interesting question on the 3 English dictionaries: « That's enough with the English dictionaries, don't you think? » I'm wondering, how many is "enough"? I don't think it's just a question of number, but also of content. Sadly the examples given are about very common words and the motivation is short, so its indeed hard to see what te value of these identifiers. For example, is there words that can only be found in these dictionary that would make them unique? Also, are they really "Highly authoritative source"? (just because it's published by the prestigious Oxford don't make them magically great ; I add a quick look at the freely accessible part of https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780191739545.001.0001/acref-9780191739545 and I may have missed something but it's not really impressive).
Then for me, the main problem is that these website are not fully freely accessible. If the value was clear, maybe we could overlook this but the two points together makes me wonder... the main issue is for homograph, without seeing the content, how can I know what lexeme are https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780191739545.001.0001/b-fr-en-00003-0000001 and https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780191739545.001.0001/b-fr-en-00003-0000002 (both "a").
What do you all think?
Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 15:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @VIGNERON Note that while ordinarily I would not encourage the addition of entirely paywalled reference properties, Oxford Reference is freely accessible to Wikimedia users through Wikipedia Library. I am not opposed to the addition of any of these properties for the facts that bilingual dictionary properties ultimately reduce the amount of time required of non-English speaking contributors to add sourced information to lexemes. However, given the number of existing properties for English, German, and French lexemes in particular those proposals are not a priority from my point of view. عُثمان (talk) 16:33, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @VIGNERON, thanks for opening the discussion. I agree with the various points made.
- I supported the creation of the English-Italian dictionary property. The Italian language still needs references and identifiers to support it. Especially with regard to the current Italian language.
- Searching for a word in Google, moreover, the 'dictionary box' at the top of the page presents results from Oxford Languages.
- Regarding all the other properties of Oxford dictionaries, I too am not convinced by the quantity. It is easy for them to remain dormant properties.
- Therefore, I will not vote for other properties that do not interest me.
- Thanks, Luca.favorido (talk) 05:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
bilingual/multilingual usage examples
editHi, for usage example (P5831), what should I do if I want to enter the exact same sentence (translations) in different languages? Do I simply add another value with the other language id? For example if I want to translate 5 example sentences from language A into 2 other languages (B and C), does that mean the P5831 will have 5 x 3 = 15 values? Bennylin (talk) 11:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
- Which languages B and C (out of 6000 others) would you choose and why ? --Infovarius (talk) 19:15, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
- A is local language, B is national language, C is international language. Bennylin (talk) 06:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC)