Talk:Q17278

Conflict

Interwiki conflict
Topic: circular figures	Items involved: Q238231Talk, Q17278Talk, Q843905Talk, Q4115331Talk	Status:    not resolved
Some languages have one word for 2. Present order: plane figure / curve / its length / area of figure. Also in topology - more general set. Infovarius (talk) 17:28, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

In Portuguese I was trying to solve this conflict by proposing this separations, based on our academic literature:

1. Q17278: Should be named círculo (circle) and have it's description changed to:

shape made of points whose distance from the center is less than or equal to a specific value

A circle is not a curve. The curve/perimeter/lenght is the circumference.

This should link to en:Circle and pt:Círculo articles

2. Q843905: Should remain as circunferência (circumference) with it's description maitained

This should link to en:Circumference and pt:Circunferência articles

Note that this should not change the en base, just correct the interwiki links for pt wiki.

Sintropepe (talk) 23:01, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't quite understand the difference between portuguese words, but let's not change the current meaning of the items which is following: Q238231 is a part of a plane with some area, Q17278 is its boundary - plain curve, Q843905 is the length of previous. --Infovarius (talk) 19:29, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Unit?

What does it mean? --Infovarius (talkTalk) 14:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

@Infovarius did not seem to make sense when looking about the units, I deleted @Suruena:. Geometric form makes a lot more sense. author  TomT0m / talk page 15:53, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

definition

I'm not native English speaking, but I regard the circle as a plane object with a surface area. The round thing, that's empty in the middle, I refer to as a ring. Otherwise, how can you distinguish the 2 dimensional disk from the 3 dimensional? Gmac4247 (talk) 08:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Gmac4247: Don't refer to English, as English has no good distinction for these notions. What is your favourite language? Q17278 is for 1D, Q238231 is for 2D, Q12346540 (thin) and Q10803218 (higher) are for 3D objects. You are free to propose sitelink move. --Infovarius (talk) 16:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Infovarius: I'm not sure, if I have a favourite language.Gmac4247 (talk) 10:43, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

@Gmac4247: What about native tongue? By the way, ring is Q45926 which is different too. --Infovarius (talk) 20:40, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

@Infovarius: My native tongue is Q9067. Gmac4247 (talk) 10:46, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

@Gmac4247: Oh, this is hard for me... Please help me to understand, kör is used for $x^{2}+y^{2}=r^{2}$ or for $x^{2}+y^{2}<r^{2}$ or for both? And you don't have another word for this topic? --Infovarius (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

@Infovarius:$x^{2}+y^{2}=r^{2}$ looks like Q11518. I use it to calculate the area of a Q238231. All I can say about that is written in the Wikiversity article linked below. " Kör " means Q17278 or Q238231.Gmac4247 (talk) 06:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

@Infovarius: I propose the merge of some items to solve the interwiki conflict, according to the following:

There's no 1d circle. In 1d we can move in one direction or the opposite. That makes it 1d. The circle "kör" is 2d and has an area and a circumference. The disk "korong" is 3d, no matter if it's thin or thick. The cylinder "henger" is as high as wide, or higher. The unit of these objects can be piece "darab", or instance "példány". Gmac4247 (talk) 08:46, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

So either the problem is that Hungarian doesn't distinguish between two, or doesn't have a word for a curve (yes, there is 1D entity). --Infovarius (talk) 16:20, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

new section

@Infovarius: I started a new section, because my device can't handle long conversations. I think I understand your approach, but I approach the topic more from the practical side.

I. Dimensions

When it comes to 3d, I think of this

I've found this image on commons. In 3d we define a point's position with 3 coordinates (x;y;z). E.g. x and y axis are the desktop and z means how high the semicircle is above the desktop. Let's pretend, that it's on the desktop, or we just don't care about how high it is. That means, z=0. If we want to determine the position of any point of that red semicircle, we still need 2 coordinates (x;y). That makes it 2d. The 1d projection of a circle would be a straight line.

II. Outline

I understand the concept of a theoretic circle in virtual space, without a surface, but such thing does not exist in practice. E.g. a ship can travel on a circular path, and we can regard its path as a Q17278. The area, that is bounded by that circular path is excluded from the ship's path, yet it's still there, so we can tell the surface area of the water, bounded by the ship's path. And all this can be simplified to 2d, because the ship is constantly at water level.

Gmac4247 (talk) 14:01, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't quite understand what do you want to argue here. Yes, Q17278 can be regarded as generalization of some path. Yes, it is closely related to Q238231 (because is its boundary). But still they are 2 different objects, different sets. It's like (sorry I didn't find appropriate 2D item, so analogy will be in 3D) you mixing ball (Q838611) and sphere (Q12507). But closed ball (Q64851283) (oh, another item?) = sphere (Q12507) $\bigcup$ open ball (Q64851287), so obviously they are different. By the way, do you have 2 words for ball (Q838611) and sphere (Q12507)? --Infovarius (talk) 11:48, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't know. I'll search.

Gmac4247 (talk) 17:11, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

area of a circle

[1] Gmac4247 (talk) 08:18, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Length of a circle. --Infovarius (talk) 16:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)