Talk:Q61130878

Deprecated statement

I have deprecated the statement that said that this item is subclass of Q18340514 (events in a specific year or time period), because Q18340514 is a subclass of Q15138389 (Wikimedia article page), but the current item is used for olympic delegations and similar stuff. An olympic delegation is NOT an article page! 188.217.43.240 19:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

My first reaction was similar, though I didn't focus on the "Wikimedia article page" remark and subclass. The problem I see is that it refers to a collection, list or set of eventS (plural) in a specific time period; that is, all events in (say) 1984 or during WWII.

Seeing that all of the subclass statements were added by the item creator, four of them already from the start and event sequence (Q15900616) almost a year later, I must question them all, because there is no way I can imagine a single item satisfying all five statements simultanously. A hypothetical instance of (P31) nation at occurrence (Q61130878) must at the same time be:

1. a number of events in a specific year or time period (Q18340514) (in the past, presumably),
2. an occurrence (Q1190554) ("something that has happened"),
3. a recurring event (Q15275719) (something that happens regularly),
4. an aspect of history (Q17524420), and
5. an event sequence (Q15900616) (an organized recurring event, thus making #3 redundant).

With the possible exception of "aspect of history", all these classes seem to involve one or more events of some kind, and I'm not sure I would regard even a national delegation to the 1984 Summer Olympic Games an "event" by itself. They have participated in an organized event, but that's something else, not just another kind of event. If the idea is to merely link the items together, the property to us is participant in (P1344) (at the instance level} or perhaps subject has role (P2868), not subclass of (P279).

Ok, their appearance may fit the occurrence (Q1190554) item definition of "occurrence of a fact or object in space-time", but we are really talking basic philosophy or physics here; couldn't a more mundane subclass be found to describe a specific Olympic delegation as an organized gathering of people rather than as a fundamental point in the space-time continuum?

The intent of this class seems to have been to create an umbrella for a number of existing items regarding nations being represented at specified recurring events such as sporting and singing competitions, as they have since been made subclasses of this one. This seems ok to me, but I would still not regard the national delegations themselves as "events" unless the items are more focussed on the national selection and qualifying activities than on their participation and results in the final joint event. Again, I would look for a subclass under human activity (Q61788060), not under "philosophy" or "physics".

Then we have the "aspect of history" issue. Was it really the intent of the item creator to include also wartime events under this umbrella? Because that's also what this class is used for today, though not via subclasses, but as direct instances, as wartime events tend to be (mostly) involuntary and irregular, not voluntary and organized around an annual schedule. Comparing outlandish stage costumes and theatrics with military uniforms and battlefield strategy? Number of casualties with number of gold medals? Qualification rounds with political unrest? I'd rather not...

Look at the properties for this type (P1963): These seem more geared towards organized, voluntary participation than towards being dragged into some violent activity, although "significant event" might have other connotations than semifinals and finals. The item type and value constraints for participant in (P1344) also do include group of humans (Q16334295) and occurrence (Q1190554), respectively, meaning that Wikidata won't actually complain if you use that property to indicate that a regular army (Q1261096) was a participant in a war (Q198). Or a silent majority (Q2555361) in a sewer overflow (Q30249564), for that matter.

There are events, and then there are events. Same word (at least in English; I'm not sure about all the other 400 languages), different meanings and connotations. We have family events, social events, disastrous events, and extinction-level events.

I'd vote for splitting this class in two parts, and then let each part be categorized according to its own contents only. One might be further subdivided by type of event, and the other by time of event. And no, I'm not thinking of before vs after ABBA. --SM5POR (talk) 16:42, 24 July 2020 (UTC)