Talk:Q64326

Conflation

After various merges [1], [2], [3] this item describes at least two persons:

• Ludwig, Bayern, Herzog (1267-1290): GND 13795638X = Q75291411 (merged)
• Ludwig III., Niederbayern, Herzog (1269-1296): GND 136720706 = Q64326
• Q44059371 = ?
• Q96074890 = ?

@Lymantria, Jheald: Can you check your merges? Kolja21 (talk) 01:30, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

IMHO Merge from Q44059371 has been correct. Lymantria (talk) 05:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

The bot JhealdBatch merged with IDs linked to Louis II, Duke of Bavaria (Q61467). I've marked the item as conflation and left a note at User talk:Jheald#Stop JhealdBatch. --Kolja21 (talk) 02:13, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

@Kolja21, MisterSynergy: I will try to look at this later today. For what it's worth the JhealdBatch account isn't an account I use to do autonomous ongoing bot jobs. (For that kind of editing I have a different account, JhealdBot, though currently it only has tasks approved on Commons). The batch account is used to execute specific limited groups of edits -- typically to populate properties that I have matched and sanity-checked offline. It's very seldom that I would use it for merges, as typically these need manual editing for tidying-up afterwards. This edit (from a set of batches two years ago) was an exception, made as part of ongoing efforts to clear up duplicates created by GZWDer's big The Peerage person ID (P4638) import. (See Property_talk:P4638#Maintenance for progress, and various further indicative queries). For this batch (59 cases) and a few similar ones, items were merged if they had a spouse in common and the names appeared to match (as determined by eyeballing the results of a query, and checking any cases that looked at all doubtful).

Regarding this item it appears a mistake was made, which I will look into and put right. But overall those batches seem to have been pretty accurate; it's also two years since I've done any more batches of this kind. Jheald (talk) 08:26, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

@Kolja21, MisterSynergy: I have now had a look, and divided the external identifiers appropriately between this item Louis III, Duke of Bavaria (Q64326) (1269-1296) and Ludwig of Bavaria (Q104097704) (1267-1290).

A couple of issues remain:

• The en-wiki articles en:Louis III, Duke of Bavaria and en:Frederick III, Duke of Lorraine claim that it was this Ludwig who married Isabelle of Lorraine (Q22328258). However the source Charles Cawley, "Medieval Lands", 2006-2020 (Q13419312), in its bio [4] for the other Ludwig cites a marriage contract for her marrying Ludwig son of Ludwig, which seems to be good evidence that it was the other Ludwig who she married, as also per DNB, The Perage, genealogics, and Roglo.
• the British Museum person or institution ID (P1711) database has a confused entry BIOG199220, used to identify one of the figures in a 1773 print Bb,8.403. The print evidently represents the other Ludwig's family, the figures on the left representing his father Ludwig with his two wives. The verse on the right then appears to discuss Ludwig of Bavaria (Q104097704) (Ludwig ein harder stolzer man / zum weib man im aus Ungern gan / Elizabethen des Konigs sinds / zu Nurembergs stach in dot sein Sgnd) [sp?], the last line presumably referring to his death at the joust at Nuremburg. But on the strength of the previous line, the BM's naming ("Heinrich XIII") seems to be confusing him with Henry XIII or I Duke of Bavaria (Q61154) husband of Elizabeth of Hungary, Duchess of Bavaria (Q671707). For good measure the BM also seems to be misidentifying Anna of Glogau (Q2797080) in the print as Archduchess Anna of Austria (Q163551), and Elizabeth of Hungary, Duchess of Bavaria (Q671707) [?? - should have been Isabelle of Lorraine (Q22328258) ?] as Elizabeth Stuart, Queen of Bohemia (Q158252) (very definitely wrong!). So that all seems a bit confused.

But these two issues apart, the two Ludwig items are now I think as they should be. Jheald (talk) 11:56, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

British Museum (print Bb,8.403):

• Ludwig, einer harter stolzer Mann → sounds like Ludwig der Strenge, Louis the Strict
• Heiratete Elisabeth, Königstochter aus Ungarn → married Elisabeth, daughter of a king from Hungary
• In Nürnberg stach ihn tot "sein sgnd" (?) → stabbed in Nuremberg by his (?)

--Kolja21 (talk) 13:37, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Just a guess: "sgnd" (or sägnd) might be 2nd = secundus = de:Sekundant. --Kolja21 (talk) 13:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

@Kolja21: Interesting thought. But I think it needs to rhyme (or nearly) with (?) sindt in the line above, so perhaps fand = he found ? Jheald (talk) 16:40, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

True. I've confused "f" and "s". This source confirms that it is Ludwig, Herzog von Bayern (1267-1290). "Ludwig elegans starb 1290 im Turnier in Nürnberg, was wiederum die letzte Zeile der Beschreibung (zu Nürnberg stach ihn tot sein Feind) berichtet." So it's "fägnd" = Feind = stabbed in Nuremberg by his enemy. --Kolja21 (talk) 23:19, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

The left-hand side of the BM print appears to be adapted from c:File:LudwigderStrengeMariavonBrabantAnnavonSchlesien-Glogau.jpg; but for that image Commons seems only to give a local guidebook as a source (as also this pic). Other prints at the BM from the series by Wissger can be found at [5], though I don't know if they help. Jheald (talk) 16:48, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

I like these pictures. They give hints but they are not a reliable source. --Kolja21 (talk) 22:58, 16 October 2022 (UTC)