Talk:Q7188
Autodescription — government (Q7188)
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Has parts edit
@Infovarius: removed legislature (Q11204) and judiciary (Q105985) from has part(s) (P527) statement claiming "there is a separation of powers". This item refers to the general organization of a state ('system by which a state or community is governed') which does include the legislative and the judicial branch as well (see "government normally consists of legislature, executive, and judiciary" in Wikipedia). Indeed 'government' has a more limited meaning referring to the executive branch only, but this item is different from that meaning, see the conflict statements above. -- Tdombos (talk) 12:11, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Tdombos: and what item has "more limited meaning" according to you? Because according to ru-wiki government (Q7188) includes cabinet (Q640506) but they both represent only executive power. --Infovarius (talk) 19:17, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Infovarius: government (Q7188) refers to the general organization of the state, which includes legislature (Q11204), judiciary (Q105985) and executive branch (Q35798). executive branch (Q35798) includes cabinet (Q640506) (the inner circle of decision makers usually consisting of minister (Q83307)) as well as the public administration (Q31728) (including ministry (Q192350) and government agency (Q327333)). -- Tdombos (talk) 20:34, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Tdombos:, which language do you refer? Becuase in Russian it isn't true. And compare with Bulgarian: bg:Държавно управление vs bg:Правительство. --Infovarius (talk) 11:37, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Tdombos: may be you messed up with state power (Q2324993) or public authority (Q4383245)? They are more general than executive. --Infovarius (talk) 13:34, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Infovarius: government (Q7188) refers to the general organization of the state, which includes legislature (Q11204), judiciary (Q105985) and executive branch (Q35798). executive branch (Q35798) includes cabinet (Q640506) (the inner circle of decision makers usually consisting of minister (Q83307)) as well as the public administration (Q31728) (including ministry (Q192350) and government agency (Q327333)). -- Tdombos (talk) 20:34, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
It seems that I've arrived here with the same issue as Tdombos after Infovarius reverted my edits. In English at least, "Government" is most definitely not part of the executive branch. It is the other way around. It sounds like there may be two very different concepts here between the Russian and English wiki pages. @Infovarius: since it seems that I'm not the first to raise this specific issue with you, may I ask that you suggest alternatives that would satisfy our different understandings? Nate Wessel (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
- Ok, I am ready to separate this item. The question is, what about other languages? There is some difficulty with fr-link - they say about both variants in it. Let's distribute links together! --Infovarius (talk) 07:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
- There are different usages for the term "government" even in English:
- The permanent organization that runs a state. This is the usual meaning in American English, and it unambiguously includes all branches of government under separation of powers (Q79896).
- The group of politicians that control the executive branch at a given point in time, generally with the support of a party or coalition in parliament. This is also called a "ministry" (also ambiguously; e.g. "Churchill war ministry") or a "cabinet". This meaning is often used in Commonwealth countries using a Westminster system (Q720477). While the U.S. has a presidential system (Q49892), an "administration" (meaning the president and his appointees) is substantially the same concept. Note that it may be hard to unambiguously place this concept in relation to the executive branch, because in parliamentary systems the legislature is closely intertwined with executive functions (fusion of powers (Q2093159)). Maybe that explains the confusion.
- A test case: "the government has fallen". In Commonwealth countries, this refers to a fairly routine event in which the incumbent administration has been voted out due to losing its parliamentary majority. In the US, it would mean that somebody overthrew the entire system of government.
- There are a few existing items which may be related or duplicative, but it's not clear what concept they're intended to refer to: government administration (Q3754526) public administration (Q31728) cabinet (Q640506)
- 73.223.72.200 22:53, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
- There are different usages for the term "government" even in English:
- Or another test: does "the government" includes parliament (Q35749) (broader sense) or do they separate organs (looser sense)? --Infovarius (talk) 10:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)