User talk:Sextvåetc/Arkiv/2019-2020

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--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:19, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Signature

Hi. Your current signature is confusing. It displays an IP address instead of your username (or any other name). I recommend removing the IP address because it may get people confused (like me). Because your username is too long you could use an alias of it instead. Thank you, Esteban16 (talk) 16:28, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

@Esteban16: Well, my username is "Sextvå.tvånoll.ettsjunoll.sjufyra" and that translates to 62.20.170.74. That I write "IP" before that is to not confuse it with an "anonymous" editor. IP 62.20.170.74 (Hej!) 06:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Would this be better? 622 017 074 (Hej!) 09:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Replaced by…

You have added “replaced by” at a number of locations where it is wrong. For example Sør-Aurdal (Q48414) has never been replaced by Etnedal (Q488049),[1] the latter was created by splitting off parts from Sør-Aurdal and Nord-Aurdal. In this case neither Sør-Aurdal nor Nord-Aurdal was discontinued, and thus never replaced.

I guess you have some dataset that lists the changes, thus you are in a better position than me to fix the errors. Jeblad (talk) 22:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

@Jeblad: First of all, this claim only is valid for the municipality of Sør-Aurdal. Not any other area with the name Sør-Aurdal. I have understood the nowiki-articles tends to be both about the kommune and an area (trakt?) with the same name. That way of thinking works on Wikipedia, but it fails misearably here on Wikidata.

My source, which I specify in my edit, tells:

Opprettelse ved grenseregulering
0540a Sør-Aurdal 1 331 
0542 Nord-Aurdal 362 1894 0541 Etnedal 

That is: 1331 inhabitants of Sör- and 632 of Nord-Aurdal and the territory they lived on were transferred to Etnedal.

Note, that I never claimed that Sör-Aurdal was discontinued in 1896, only this part of Sør-Aurdal. (There is no P576:1896 here.) Unfortunatley, I am not aware any property to describe "splitting of parts".

We have more specific properties for items like Etnedal in cases like this. We then have both "replaces" P1365 and "separated from" P807. But I am not aware of any inverse property of "separated from", like in this case for Sør-Aurdal.

Mainly, I have used "replaced by" when a municipality has been completely discontinued. I have also used it for significant splits, and I guess it is those edits you are worried about. If I remember correctly, I added this in Sør-Aurdal, but not in Nord-Aurdal, since the part in Nord-Aurdal was quite small in comparison to all of Nord-Aurdal. I have never added it when the source has telled me 32 inhabitants from A have been transferred to new entity B. 62 etc (talk) 06:24, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

You have used replaced by (P1366) which is “other person or item which continues the item by replacing it in its role”. Neither Sør-Aurdal (Q48414) nor Nord-Aurdal (Q484074) has been replaced by Etnedal (Q488049), they both very much continue to exist! If you lack a property, then ask for a new one.

To my knowledge there are no other area called Sør-Aurdal, in the role of a municipality. There is a Sør-Aurdal prestgjeld, which for a short period acted in the same role as the municipality. It was created in 1805 when Aurdal prestgjeld was split into Sør- and Nord-Aurdal prestgjeld. The notion of a prestgjeld was later discontinued in 1837. If you check your source it clearly states “Opprettelse ved grenseregulering”, it is Etnedal that has been created by adjusting the borders of Sør- and Nord-Aurdal. (I guess you have other similar errors.)

The administrative role and the administrative area is two different things, but are mangled in almost all articles on Wikipedia and Wikidata. It is the same at svwiki. This isn't about these two entities being mangled, it is about a false claim that a municipality is discontinued, which it is not.

What happen was that Bruflat sokn in Sør-Aurdal and Nord-Etnedal sokn in Nord-Aurdal was separated from their respective municipalities, and then moved into the newly created Etnedal municipality in 1894. Jeblad (talk) 09:17, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

For those 1331 persons involved in Sør-Aurdal, Etnedal replaced Sør-Aurdal as municipal authority. In Sweden (Q34) I have used applies to part (P518) as qualifier in cases like this. Etnedal replaced Sør-Aurdal as municipal authority in Bruflat sokn. My problem here is that the source in this case did not provide me with the information about "Bruflat sokn". And I do not know if there are any item about "Bruflat sokn". In some cases the source have given me this information, but I do not know how I should interpret it. The borders of socknar here in Sweden does not fully fit with the borders of municipalities. The socken I grow up in, contained two municipalities the year I was born. Some areas in the municipalities eastern parts, were located in a neighbouring socken. The source from SSB does not provide me enough details to fully know what is the best way to describe it in those cases. I know I in at least one case has used "applies to part" togheter with a specific island.

From what I know, replaced by (P1366) does not state that something has been discontinued. We have dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) for that.

Administrative role and the Administrative area are two different things, yes. And I think both are within the P31:Norwegian municipality-claim here. I do not know the area of Aurdal very well. But if we instead talk about "Viken", I know that name sometimes applies to something completely different than just a fylke. In the case about Viken, we have different items for different definitions of that, but that is not always the case with such things as Aurland and Etnedal. I know from articles I have read that this has largely affected how you have named your kommune and fylken. In Sweden, the area of something bearing the same name as a municipality/län very poorly fits those of the administrative area.

On enwp, I know they sometimes separates the "administrative role" from the "administrative area". But I find it difficult to make that separation in both Norway and Sweden. The kommune has here both a political role and non-political administrative roles. And the non-political administrative role is in practise much larger. I myself work for the municipality, but very far from the political part. 62 etc (talk) 11:26, 10 March 2020 (UTC)