Wikidata:Property proposal/Australian Heritage Database ID

Australian Heritage Database ID

Done: Australian Heritage Database Place ID (P3008) (Talk and documentation)

Description	place ID on the Australian Heritage Database
Data type	External identifier
Domain	cultural property (Q2065736)
Allowed values	/d+
Example	Sydney Opera House (Q45178) → 105738
Formatter URL	http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/ahdb/search.pl?mode=place_detail;place_id=$1

Motivation

This register include the properties listed on the Australian National Heritage List (Q781601) and the Commonwealth Heritage List (Q1116950) of Australia. Seem usefull haritage database. Fralambert (talk) 04:01, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I have thinking about having Wikidata properties for the various Australian heritage registers for some time (it just hadn't made it to the top of my to-do list). There are more than the two above as part of the national framework includes the state heritage regiters (many of the entries in these were formerly in the Register of the National Estate). I have been doing a project to get the Queensland Heritage Register sites onto Wikipedia; I currently have about 90% of the approx 1700 sites with articles on Wikipedia; most of these articles (the ones I have written) are using {{infobox historic site}} and use the property designation1_number to store the reference number within the Queensland Heritage Register, so these should be easy to harvest as one way to ingest them. I also have a spreadsheet that tracks the complete list of registration numbers and Wikipedia articles (to the best of my ability) as an alternative way to ingest them. I discussed the structure of these QHR articles including the use of the infobox parameters on the Australian Wikipedian's Noticeboard to get Australia-wide consensus on the approach so, over time, other HRs in Australia could adopt a compatible approach. However, to the best of my knowledge, no other HR in Australia is being systematically used to create Wikipedia articles. (The QHR is CC-BY licensed which makes the task much more feasible, although I have now been working on it for about 2 years now, so even with CC-BY and some automation, it's not a fast process).

So, I would like to see Wikidata property for all of the major Australian HRs. Can there be an overarching Wikidata property that they all "inherit" from to keep them grouped int that way or is it a case of introducing all individually?

In the case of the Australian Heritage Database ID proposed above, I would prefer to see it split into separate properties for each of actual heritage registers involved as their combination into a single database may not be a permanent state of affairs. Unfortunately, for many of our heritage registers, there are often 2 Ids, one which is the actual registration number in the heritage register (which is usually persistent or at least intended to be, sometimes there are temporary numbers while an assessment takes place) and a database Id relating to whatever specific tool is used for storing the register electronically (which is usually not persistent, a new implementation or even some database refresh changes these numbers), but these numbers may be used to generating URLs to display the entry. If you look at an example entry, you will see there are two numbers being quoted in each entry "Place ID" and "Place File No". I am not sure how persistent either of these are, but this might be worth knowing before proceeding. I guess the question I am asking here is, which is the property that Wikidata should hold where there are 2 possibilities, one that is persistent but might not allow manufacture of a URL or the one that might not be persistent but can be used to manufacture a URL? In the case of the Queensland Heritage Register, they used to have the two different IDs but have now moved to using the actual register number as the URL (so we have only 1 number to deal with in the QHR).

For this reason, I would suggest that the Queensland Heritage Register might be the better heritage register to work with initially as there is a single persistent ID that also works for URL manufacture and we have a large number of Wikipedia articles for that register, each of which holds that number in a known field of the infobox.

Anyhow, let me know if I can help here. Unfortunately I will shortly be off on holidays and not very much (at all?) on-wiki. Kerry Raymond (talk) 03:08, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

- @Kerry Raymond: It might be better to raise your wider questions on Project Chat, where they will be discovred more easily, by more people. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with Kerry Raymond that their catalogue scheme and url formatting doesn't exactly give me confidence that it is a persistent/stable format for us to reference to. Neverthelss, it's an excellent database for the purposes of us mass-importing authority control numbers and mass-creating wikidata items for all of australia's heritage places. Wittylama (talk) 14:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support this proposal. We can always mark the IDs as deprecated, if and when the circumstances change. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It might be helpful in the label and description to mention that this id is the "Place ID", to distinguish from "Place File No.". Lymantria (talk) 09:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Fralambert, Kerry Raymond, Pigsonthewing: Done I have given an additional example, Uluṟu-Kata Tjuṯa National Park (Q251999), where four ID's are given, belonging to all four registers included. Perhaps it is worth making items on each of these registers and add them with qualifier P794 (P794). I did that for World Heritage Site (Q9259) in the example. Now Australian Heritage Database Place ID (P3008). --Lymantria (talk) 20:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]