Wikidata:Property proposal/Consecrator of

Consecrator of edit

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Person

Not done

Description	The persons a Christian bishop, acting as principal or sole consecrator, have consecrated as bishops. Inverse of consecrator (P1598).
Data type	Item
Template parameter	"bishop 1" — "bishop 180" in en:Template:Ordination
Allowed values	Q template or text
Example	Timothy M. Dolan (Q225823)
Planned use	I intend to use the property on the item pages of various Christian bishops (Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran) and later on for other Christian denominations. Immediately, I intend to have values from this property called by en:Template:Ordination in the "Episcopal succession" section to completely enable Wikidata-fed data in the template.

Motivation

This property would be the inverse of consecrator (P1598). I am enabling en:Template:Ordination to call data values from Wikidata. The template is currently unable to fill its "Episcopal succession" section because there is no property on Wikidata that can accept values for it. In addition to its inter-wiki structural role, the information is useful for many Christians, including Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. for indicating apostolic succession in the historic episcopate. This property was proposed in the past, but there is now a structural need, so it can be used in the template for further Wikidata integration in English Wikipedia. Ergo Sum (talk) 21:47, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

What's special about Christian bishop's, so that the relationship is qualitatively different from other religions and also from other positions in the Christian church that appoint people.

Apart from that you can likely do a reverse lookup of consecrator (P1598) to get data from your template. ChristianKl (✉) 16:20, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: I'm not aware of a bishop analogue in other religions. If there is one, then perhaps this proposed property could be revised. It expresses something different than appointment. For example, the Pope appoints each bishop, but a particular bishop consecrates them.

As for the reverse lookup, could you explain what exactly that is? If you mean having the template call the values from different items for each parameter, then that would be a very expensive call, which I don't believe is allowed by infobox-based templates. Also, the Enwiki-Wikidata module does not support that. Ergo Sum (talk) 18:32, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly does it mean to consecrate? ChristianKl (✉) 18:34, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: Consecration is a religious ceremony by which a bishop or group of bishops makes someone else a bishop. It involves ritual and is a spiritual process, not an administrative one. Ergo Sum (talk) 18:36, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying that Christianity is the only religion that has religious ceremonies in which someone who's a X or a group of X's makes another person an X? ChristianKl (✉) 13:18, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There could very well be other religions that do that, but I do not know of them. To my knowledge, neither Judaism nor Islam raise individuals to certain positions through religious ceremonies. I am not sure how Hindu priests are appointed, but it could be through a religious ceremony. If you have a suggestion of a broader term that could encompass these (as well as ordinations for Christian priests), I'm all ears. Ergo Sum (talk) 17:47, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have proposed role as a new property, which if passed, would diminish the need for this property. Role seems more generally applicable, so I would appreciate if you could weigh in there as well. Ergo Sum (talk) 06:07, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done, no consensus − Pintoch (talk) 09:48, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]