Property talk:P516
Latest comment: 10 years ago by Tobias1984 in topic This is so confusing
Documentation
powered by
equipment or engine used by the subject to convert a source or energy into mechanical energy
equipment or engine used by the subject to convert a source or energy into mechanical energy
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Value type “electric power source (Q1753139), engine model (Q15057021), engine (Q44167), propulsion (Q2583685), rocket engine (Q335225), electric motor model (Q114567014)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value electric power source (Q1753139), engine model (Q15057021), engine (Q44167), propulsion (Q2583685), rocket engine (Q335225), electric motor model (Q114567014) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P516#Value type Q1753139, Q15057021, Q44167, Q2583685, Q335225, Q114567014, SPARQL
Type “concrete object (Q4406616), abstract entity (Q7048977), physical object (Q223557)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “concrete object (Q4406616), abstract entity (Q7048977), physical object (Q223557)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P516#Type Q4406616, Q7048977, Q223557, SPARQL
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P516#Entity types
Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P516#Scope, SPARQL
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This property is being used by:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
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This property is being used by: Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
Level of detail edit
We should still try to agree on what level of detail this property should have. The airplane engines already often have a Wikipedia entry and are therefore already items. But what about cars? A car can usually have around 10 different engine versions and none of them have an entry on Wikipedia. Should we simply add diesel and otto to most of them? Or should we create about 10k items and dissect the automotive engine building history? --Tobias1984 (talk) 07:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
- What is an otto? Danrok (talk) 00:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
- In German its just a motor that ignites the fuel with a spark plug i.e. gasoline engine instead of diesel. (en:Otto engine). What is your opinion about the level of detail? --Tobias1984 (talk) 08:02, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
- What is an otto? Danrok (talk) 00:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Level of Detail:
- Airplanes: Specific model of the turbine
- Rockets and Space Shuttles: Specific stages
- Cars: ???
- Ships: ???
- ...
- The variant engine thing is a bit of a problem, and exists with other things not just cars. There must be 100's of variants of the AK-47 rifle, but only one article on wikipedia. Danrok (talk) 22:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Take a look at HMS Dreadnought (Q308909) I have used manufacturer as a qualifier with powerplant. Danrok (talk) 14:26, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- That looks like a really good way of doing it. Maybe a similar approach would work for cars where we at least can say who manufactured the engine. --Tobias1984 (talk) 16:07, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- I'm sure there will be a way to handle a list of all the engine options, but we can't progress with it until we have more data types like number. Danrok (talk) 16:17, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- That looks like a really good way of doing it. Maybe a similar approach would work for cars where we at least can say who manufactured the engine. --Tobias1984 (talk) 16:07, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Name change "power plant" to "engine" edit
- Powerplant sounds wrong. A power plant, to me, is a power station, a building that generates electricity. This is power source? We could use this for rockets too. Secretlondon (talk) 14:04, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- I guess we can change the main name of this property if powerplant can cause confusion. I think that "power source" would have to be different property. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think this is engine, and the property still being discussed is power source. I think in US English power plant may also mean engine (although on en: it redirects to power station) but in British English it doesn't. Secretlondon (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- We can't name it "engine" at the moment because there is a software property with that name Property:P408. --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Power plant is the right term, see power plant. It's a broad term which covers all, engine is more specific. It's likely that there are things which are powered by things which are not engines, such as Electrically powered spacecraft propulsion. Danrok (talk) 21:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Are you a speaker of American English? Power plant does _not_ mean this in British English! Secretlondon (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, it does I am British, and have previosuly worked for a plant and tool hire company. Look up plant hire in the yellow pages. ;) Danrok (talk) 22:05, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Should we still add turbine and rocket booster to the aliases? --Tobias1984 (talk) 06:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
- Both of those are engines. If you want to add them go ahead, but I'd suggest rocket engine rather than booster. Danrok (talk) 06:47, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Should we still add turbine and rocket booster to the aliases? --Tobias1984 (talk) 06:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
- I am in agreement with Danrok on this one. Powerplant is the better label for this property. I do support having whatever aliases make sense so people can readily discover the property when entering data. Joshbaumgartner (talk) 08:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, it does I am British, and have previosuly worked for a plant and tool hire company. Look up plant hire in the yellow pages. ;) Danrok (talk) 22:05, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Are you a speaker of American English? Power plant does _not_ mean this in British English! Secretlondon (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- Power plant is the right term, see power plant. It's a broad term which covers all, engine is more specific. It's likely that there are things which are powered by things which are not engines, such as Electrically powered spacecraft propulsion. Danrok (talk) 21:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- We can't name it "engine" at the moment because there is a software property with that name Property:P408. --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- I think this is engine, and the property still being discussed is power source. I think in US English power plant may also mean engine (although on en: it redirects to power station) but in British English it doesn't. Secretlondon (talk) 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
- I guess we can change the main name of this property if powerplant can cause confusion. I think that "power source" would have to be different property. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
This is so confusing edit
I am from WikiProject Energy (at enwiki), and work on a LOT of power station articles. This property is so confusing. I believe this should only include power stations (a.k.a. power plants). Nothing else. Not even turbines or generating units. A collection of turbines or generating units make up a power station. Please fix this as this is a key property in the subject. Rehman 13:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Rehman: Could you give an example of how you would use "power plant" in a statement? --Tobias1984 (talk) 15:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- @Tobias1984:Please correct me if this is not how it should be used. "Power plant" ("Power station" preferred) could be used for hydroelectric dams which often have it's power station located quite some distance away, fuelled by water delivered via penstocks. For example, Laxapana Dam (Q15830476) and Polpitiya Power Station (Q15830743). Rehman 23:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
- I can se nothing confusing about this property. powered by (P516) is the part of (P361) this item that consumes the source of energy (P618) of this item. If it produces electric power, mechanical energy or thrust is irrelevant. /ℇsquilo 11:36, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Rehman: I also think that this is a confusion just in the English language. I am not aware of another language where a "power plant" can be both a building that generates electricity and an engine for a car. We could switch the labels and aliases around in English and create another property for what you have planned. Or maybe use "notable power station" "source of energy" "notable dam"? Otherwise we could also do a small RfC to gather more comments. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:09, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- I can se nothing confusing about this property. powered by (P516) is the part of (P361) this item that consumes the source of energy (P618) of this item. If it produces electric power, mechanical energy or thrust is irrelevant. /ℇsquilo 11:36, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- @Tobias1984:Please correct me if this is not how it should be used. "Power plant" ("Power station" preferred) could be used for hydroelectric dams which often have it's power station located quite some distance away, fuelled by water delivered via penstocks. For example, Laxapana Dam (Q15830476) and Polpitiya Power Station (Q15830743). Rehman 23:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)